While I don’t think bring on an advanced track changed my kids’ lives, it did save some money with AP classes. Dd25 took AP stat as an elective sophomore year and loved it, loved calculus, and her current college path is leading towards actuarial science (her twin took stat senior year instead of BC calculus and he learned he really doesn’t care for mathematics.
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Don’t fall into the hype and, please, let your kid be a kid. Parenting your child to create the perfect Top 20 college applicant is misguided and, in practical terms, it rarely works as most kids, no matter how well “prepped”, are unsuccessful in gaining admission to an elite school.
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Absolutely, amen. Let your kids have some semblance of a normal life while they still can (Covid notwithstanding).
One bit of advice may be relevant here that I gleaned (much too late) from being a volunteer coach in my children’s youth sports activities. A fellow father/coach said, “I don’t know how to make children love a sport, but I know how to make them hate a sport.” I think that the same thing goes for academics.
Life is so much more than getting into an Ivy League school, or being able to boast about your kid getting into an Ivy League school. As an earlier poster said, let kids be kids.
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In our area, most kids go to state schools and don’t aim for top 20 schools, so we didn’t hear a lot of that — but there is certainly a contingent that approach it like those parents you heard.
One of our kids picked up math quickly and was accelerated in elementary school, putting her on a track to be accelerated throughout middle school and high school. Admittedly, that has turned out to be helpful in terms of college applications because she has rigorous, challenging classes on her transcript. But she was uninterested in joining the math club or doing math or science competitions and preferred to play multiple sports (not at a level of a future Ivy or D1 athletic recruit).
I looked at a book about preparing for college when she was in middle school and quickly tossed it aside. I wasn’t going to push her to enter national competitions or seek out summer camps, academic enrichment, and later research and internship positions that she just was not interested in pursuing. If that was what it took to get into a highly selective school, we decided she could go to a state school like her older siblings.
Meanwhile, she had classmates (in that contingent I mentioned) who decided her accelerated track wasn’t accelerated enough and studied outside of school to enable them to complete all the math classes offered at the high school by the time they finished 10th grade. They did all the things you heard about at middle school orientation: pick the right language and instrument to study, play a sport, and gun for an officer position in as many clubs as possible. My kid joined only one club in high school (not counting sports teams) and is not an officer.
Now they are all seniors and a few of those kids from middle school are still there at the top of the pack, still doing all the things. Meanwhile, my child’s weighted GPA also puts her in the top 2%, she also has a 1500+ SAT score, and we find ourselves considering highly selective schools again — but at the END of the road, not at the outset.
If she gets in, it will be on the basis of strong academics without any academic ECs, coupled with commitment to playing a competitive club and varsity sport and volunteering many hours, mostly to one nonprofit focused on community service (but which is unrelated to her future major). If she doesn’t get in, maybe it will be because she didn’t show enough “passion” for one academic subject and didn’t have a “spike.” And if those schools are only admitting kids that do things my daughter didn’t, then those schools are legitimately not the right place for her.
She needs to go where people like her thrive. And if she stumbles sideways into a top-ranked school that appreciates her devotion to her “random” activities, that is awesome, too.
But ultimately SHE needs to be making her own trail. I am not going to put her on MY trail and browbeat her to march down it, because I wouldn’t react well if my parent had done that with me. I’d like her to be successful and land a well-paid job someday, but, more importantly, I want her to be happy with and genuinely interested in the work she does — even if that means a lower status position or employer and smaller salary. I’m already confident she won’t starve; beyond that, her contentment is paramount.
I will just add — it’s not just the school parents. The sports parents do it, too. So much jockeying and angling to get the right coach, the right team, the right tournament, etc., starting pre-puberty, all aiming for that elusive college athletic scholarship! It is so easy to get sucked into worrying about whether other kids will have an advantage and yours will suffer because you didn’t jump on the bandwagon. But I think we should also consider whether years of grinding away at something regardless of the child’s own interest or enjoyment puts them at a disadvantage and makes them suffer in a different way.
Bottom line, in my opinion: if you make the suggestion or present the opportunity, and your kid runs with it and succeeds without further manipulation/pressure from you, it was meant to be. If you have to force it to happen, it is not worth it.
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Got it.
Advanced math and FL aren’t requirements for taking AP tests in high school. D took 7 and had no advanced math in middle school. Tippy top colleges don’t care much about AP scores, and hardly any give credit for them. APs can be used for placement, and many other colleges give credit for them, but of course, that isn’t relevant to middle school. Colleges are primarily interested in course grades, and middle schoolers can’t take AP classes.
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Yes and due to finances my kids can’t even apply to tippy top colleges, so the goal is to chase merit and get credit for AP classes. to save money on tuition. My 20 year old is graduating in May, a year ahead of schedule. Those classes will have saved her over $35,000.
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Yes, you’re totally right that APs can save money.* IB exams can also be used for credit and are considered very rigorous, and CLEP exams are another good way to save money.
I think in the context of the original post, the OP’s concerns seem to center on parents who want their children to aim for very elite colleges. Many students who look for AP credits to get through college more quickly might not be the same students who are aiming for the Ivy League.
*As an aside, using AP scores to get credit can be a double edged sword sometimes. S got credit for three AP scores at his public u. He received credit for both AP Macro and Micro. He then ran into the issue of not being able to take intro level courses for his Econ major because, in the eyes of the college, he had already taken those classes. Quite a lot of time had elapsed since he had taken the AP Econ courses in high school, so he struggled a bit once he started taking courses for his major. It’s our fault for not considering that when he submitted them for credit.
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In many districts, a student needs to be at least on the +1 math track (algebra 1 or integrated math 1 in 8th grade) in order to get to AP (or any other) calculus.
In districts for AP level foreign language is the 5th year, a student who wants to reach that level must start the foreign language in middle school, unless is a heritage speaker who can start in a more advanced course than the year 1 course in high school.
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In middle school…get them to read. All summer, as much as possible.
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Agreed. And unfortunately I’ve seen that play out.
My D approached us in middle school about getting on the accelerated math track because some of her friends were doing online summer school to make that happen. The typical track at her school goes through AP Calc BC. If a student wants to take Multi Var Calc senior year, that needs to be identified in middle school to complete the prerequisites. While we wanted to support our D and she was academically gifted, we wanted to make sure she had time to pursue other interests. Plus she was the type kid who put a lot of pressure on herself so that was a concern. After talking to her class counselor, she agreed that my kid needed her summer for non-academic endeavors to recharge. It was the right decision for my kid and she did just fine in high school and with college admissions.
Other than exploring extracurriculars in middle school, we worked with my D on time management, organization and self advocacy. That served her well in high school as she was self sufficient and very comfortable approaching teachers for extra help and always took advantage of office hours. I think developing those skills as a middle schooler sets one up for high school, college and life. I know of several extremely bright kids who struggled in high school simply because they had not yet developed those skills.
ETA: Besides providing a better life balance for my D, her love of math waned in high school. She was good at it but did not love it. She gravitated more to the sciences and creative writing. So there’s a good chance she would have opted out of MVC anyway and had no math senior year. Kids’ interests change, academic and otherwise.
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I have a high school senior. I think at one point a year or two ago she regretted not being on the advanced math track with many of her friends, but she really hates math so I didn’t push it. I think now she is cool with not doing it because math is not her thing. I think her advice would be “middle school doesn’t count so let them be kids”. By that she means that colleges are not going to be looking at your middle school GPA.
Let them play and try out different stuff and drop out of one club and join another. Middle school is for huge growth spurts, both physically, socially, and in learning, and in figuring out what you enjoy. Just try to stay close, but not right up on top of them. Adolescence can be a rough ride. No reason to add more stress to it.
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responded wrong post
Getting obsessed with college prep at age 11 is way over-the-top in my opinion. When I see high school kids with perfect grades and SAT scores, and naming off 15 clubs they belong to…and is a varsity athlete…and started a non-profit…it’s either grossly embellished or they’re going to mentally crash and burn. Those kind of expectations are inhuman even for emotionally mature adults.
For us, we started mentioning college to our daughter around middle school, just to get her in the mindset. Being now in high school, we just let her decide what elective classes she wants to take based on her interests. Our only expectation is for her to be a functioning adult that can support herself…and we’ll pay for college.
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A tale of 2 kids
At my D23 middle school we went through this with her GC, they offered a couple accelerated programs that the GC recommended for our daughter, we chose one. In the program she took three years of High School Spanish starting with Spanish 1 in 6th Grade and ending with Spanish 3 Honors in 8th. Math she took HS Algebra 1 Honors in 8th Grade. Science took HS Biology Honors in 8th Grade. Electives 3 years in Engineering with the 8th Grade course counting as HS credit and becoming Microsoft office certified.
The program we did not do was even more accelerated in Math and science , where you do basically Pre Algebra in 6th. Algebra 1 Honors in 7th. and Geometry 1 Honors in 8th Grade. Science you do Physical Science Honors in 7th and Biology Honors in 8th.
The program we chose she earned 6 HS credits, the one we didn’t would have given her 4 credits or if she did both programs she would have had 8 credits for high school.
In High School she started the AICE Cambridge program ( Her middle school program automatically guaranteed admission to AICE upon successful completion ) that she will finish up this year. You take 7 AICE classes over 3 years she has 2 left.
It is a hard decision to make for a student going into 6th grade. We ultimately sat down as a family and talked to our daughter about the programs and decided to try one in 6th grade to see how she liked it. The one we chose was a little more broader in scope and offered the Cambridge Pathway in HS so we ultimately decided that one fit her the best and she excelled at it and wanted to continue.
As far as clubs in 7th grade she had to join National Junior honor Society at school for her program other than that she did not join any other middle school clubs. She continued her activities from elementary school, Rec. Soccer, Piano and Martial Arts.
Summers in Middle school for both kids were their time we did nothing extra.
S21 in middle school he took let’s call it the “regular” curriculum and had one semester of Mandarin as his only HS credit going in to 9th grade.
In HS he still ended up with 7 AP classes (HS offered AP Capstone diploma he chose not to pursue that), about 10 or so Honors classes, multi year academic electives; 4 years DECA, 4 years Engineering with multiple industry certifications and 2.5 years Foreign Language
He is now a Freshman at FSU, Florida State University
Looking back was it the right decision?
Daughter Yes on accelerated path
Son Yes on the “regular” path
You have to know your son/daughter and make sure it is something they want to try and are capable of handling then ultimately letting them make an informed decision.
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One thing regarding college that my kid did in middle school which I thought was cool was her school had a field trip to UNC-Chapel Hill (we’re in NC) for their “First Look” program they do for middle schoolers. UNC’s aim is to get kids, especially from more rural areas, to be thinking about college.
She also went on some college tours we did with her older sibling and older friend, but that started more in 8th grade.
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I know several families of recruited athletes who just use that hook to get into desired schools, then quit the sport after the first year. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Calculus BC in high school is already on the +1 math track. Going beyond that in high school may not be too much value for many students, especially if the following math courses are high school (not college or dual enrollment) courses.
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Most families don’t start college prep, and grades definitely don’t matter, so just have your kid take different classes to see what interests him or her, it could be a language of course, but it can be drama, woodshop, music.
Pretty harsh and judgmental statement. First off, pre-covid one of the bigger challenges colleges had was lack of counseling services for their students to meet demand even at colleges that you think would admit well-adjusted students. Yale’s most popular class is a Psychology class on well-being where the goal is to create happier students. It’s so popular that Yale made it to anyone via Coursera.
Another gross and stereotypical exaggeration, do you have any evidence of this causation or even correlation between neuroticism, high achievement and elite college?
These kids are more concerned with how they did relative to peers more than parents. The parents can put pressure more on paying for what they consider elite colleges.
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@theloniusmonk
This is actually what happened after orientation. On the way home, my kid told me, the “new friends” from orientation talked mainly about the math competitions.
I didn’t know how to react.
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… and fully intended that way. Sometimes reality is harsh, and yes, I do take the liberty of judging parents for over-stressed kids, when I hear of scenarios like this.
Uhuh… all sounds very probable.
Yet, doesn’t change the fact that parents are greatly responsible for those outcomes, when PRIOR to having even entered middle school, they are already pressuring young children into clubs, presumptive leadership roles, language electives, sports,… NOT because it offers them time to wind-down, develop their social skills, light-hearted “enrichment”, or allows them to explore their own interests. Instead those now become additional chores, regardless of the childrens’ interest, because of parents’ recklessly fantasizing of what might happen 6 years down the road during college admissions.
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