<p>My son has a great academic record - a top student at a very tough HS, Merit Scholar, 800 Math SAT. His teachers rave about him - engaged, great questions, very diligent. He's also very funny...once you get to know him. But on first meeting, he's quiet and shy. He's contemplating a math major and applying to top schools. This brings two questions:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>EC's - he's been active in many clubs, including Certamen (Latin academic team) where he has good, but not great results. But hasn't taken a leadership role, with the exception of the club he founded. He started the Nerd Club at school (that's the official title) for kids interested in Anime, gaming, etc. He's been running it since his freshman year - yes, he was actually confident enough to formally announce to the entire school that he's a nerd, but I'm his mom, so of course I'm impressed. Math wiz's usually aren't extraverts ... Any idea how schools look at EC's for these types of kids. </p></li>
<li><p>Interviews - he'll start well (good handshake and eye contact). But he is very likely to give monosyllabic responses ("Mom, it was a yes/no question, if they wanted me to elaborate, they would ask"). </p></li>
</ul>
<p>Suggestions? Experiences? Advice? </p>
<p>Thanks from the proud, and a little nervous, mom.</p>
<p>Where to apply?
How to overcome shyness?
Whether he should put the nerd club for his EC?
How to interview better?
How to hone leadership skills?</p>
<p>Shyness- My advice is to keep telling him that being shy is a form of self-centeredness. It's thinking "oh what are they going to think of me?" instead of "my job on earth is to make it a better place, so screw what they think of me, I'm just going to do the best I can helping others."</p>
<p>EC's- I'd rename the club, but that's just me. There's probably a lot of kids who really enjoy gaming, but many don't want to label themselves a nerd. Would you buy clothes from a store called "Clothes for really fashion-backward People"? It's a marketing thing- you really want to "sell" your product, whether it's a service, product, or club.</p>
<p>Interviewing- There are lots of articles, books, and even classes you can take to hone this very important skill. Practice makes perfect. No, that's wrong. Perfect practice makes perfect (IOW, practice the right things, correctly).</p>
<p>Leadership skills- Boy Scouts? County youth leadership organizations? Get involved in a school group that does community service, and take on a committe position? Start a community service project? Volunteer?</p>
<p>It's very important to get him talking for interviews. If he insists on monosyllabic answers, I'd say only do interviews when required or strongly recommended. Interviews don't normally hurt applicants, but it's pretty well known that lots of schools tend to look for outgoing, social people who have shown that they are and want to be leaders as well as active, involved members of any group they're involved in (from their dorm to their Church). Is he more talkative if he's talking about a subject that interests him? If so, he can work topics that really interest him into the answers for most questions.</p>
<p>In terms of schools, the University of Chicago has many, many students like your son. They are trying to move toward a more "typical" student body, which works against your son, but at the same time I think they still get lots of the stereotypical UChicago students. There is a core curriculum at Chicago, but it may appeal to a math kid on the Latin team.</p>
<p>If you're interested in getting recommendations for schools, let us know what your son wants in a college in terms of size, major, environment, location, etc.</p>
<p>Lots of successful people are introverts, though they do tend to be seen more in some fields than in others. There is a difference between being an introvert and being shy, though there is often overlap. Introverts can be leaders, can interview well, and can be popular. If he doesn't want to be any of those things (and I'm not using the word popular in the middle/high school sense), then he doesn't need to be, but if he wants to be, he should work hard for it. In my opinion, as someone who talks and makes friends easily, getting over shyness or self-consciousness is extremely valuable and important for many things in life.</p>
<p>Corranged, I suspect he'll end up as an extrovert like me, just a late blooming one (I was that way and my dad was that way too...the degree of similarity is weird!). Actually, my great fear is that he'll end up taking over the world ... think Pinky & the Brain. We'll look at Chicago, we haven't looked there yet. And good point about being selective on interviewing. </p>
<p>Doubleplay: the club name actually works really well, nerds aren't beat up at his school. The Latin team is as popular as the football team and he's really drawn out the shy kids. He's also done lots of community service, forgot to mention that and made full use of his summers (working with homeless people in San Fran, studying art, Latin team nationals). He's just not been into formal leadership roles, just not who he is right now (see above). He's an informal leader, usually the guy in the group that gets the project done, the kid who asks the really provocative question during class, but that doesn't quantify on an app.</p>
<p>He'd like to dual major in Math/CS & Art. So far his counselors have sent him towards Brown/RISD, UPenn (DMD), Tufts/School of the Museum, Northwestern (Animate Arts), MIT, plus Carnegie Mellon & Georgia Tech for safety. He's agnostic towards size, location (slight preference to go east), and the rest. Any schools that we missed.</p>
<p>We've talked a lot about interviewing and opening up - he's attended a lot of business functions with me (I'm a single mom in an exec role). He does very well, but that is usually jumping into a conversation that is underway. This is just not his best forum.</p>
<p>But, at the end of the day, he is who he is, which is a very cool kid, and he'll end up at the school he is meant to be at <mom slowly="" regains="" her="" normal="" cool,="" calm="" collected="" self="">.</mom></p>
<p>My son is a self proclaimed nerd. He wears computergear shirts with nerd jokes on them at least half the time. People respected him. He belong to two clubs - academic team and Science Olympiad. He was one of multiple vice-presidents of the latter. He went to two interviews and I think he did okay, but it's certainly not his strong suet unless talking to a fellow computer nerd. If he's will try rehearsing an interview where you ask the questions. My son is similar without the art interest - he took a computer graphics course a couple of years ago and didn't like it. He's at Carnegie Mellon now and seems to be enjoying it - computer science majors are required to have a minor, but I gather the school of Fine Arts operates as a separate ship it may be hard to actually have a minor - he just went to the first meeting of their Game Creation club. RPI doesn't have art, but does have a gaming major which might be of interest.</p>
<p>Geeksrule,
Nononononono, It DOES qualify on the app. Leadership and authentic interest (which is a real commodity nowadays, let me tell you) is doing, not a label. Everyone knows (college admissions counselors included) that just because you are an elected official or have a title does not mean you are a leader, or that you give a hoot about the activity.</p>
<p>Your son's roles in various services and organizations qualify as evidence of his commitment, leadership, and passion for various activities. When he goes to fill out his college applications, you need to teach him, if he doesn't already know, how to communicate his contributions to each activity he worked on. </p>
<p>Also, Latin Certamon is not trivial. My kids both did District and State Latin forum every year throughout high school and the Certamen team were the "creme de la creme" of the Latin students. (Only once out of four forum did my son get a place on the team! I'm doing the bowing Waynes World "We're not worthy" thing right now...)</p>
<p>He sounds great to me! I do second doubleplay's advice that you present shyness as focusing too much on oneself. That is wonderful advice - so many shy kids want to be helpful but think they will be seen as pushy if they jump in. My kids would have joined the anime/geek club - to have started one is a huge plus!</p>
<p>Your son sounds like mine- quiet, smart, respected by his classmates- the one who always came up with the out-of-the-box-question in class. He also participated in Latin competitions and Quiz Kids [ academic competitions] in HS, and he is at....... the University of Chicago[surprise!] where he is very happy! I suggest your son work on his interview skills- perhaps with his college counselor acting the part of an admissions rep? Or have an adult friend " interview" him so he can suggest better responses to questions he may be asked. Otherwise he sounds like a shoe-in at Chicago, and will probably do very well elsewhere as well.</p>
<p>Work with him on interview skills,since this is something he will have to face throughout his life. I taught my introvert that a one-word answer was not acceptable during an interview, but a 2-sentence answer was. Since your S is a math major, quantifying this might work for him as well.</p>
<p>There are many ways to demonstrate leadership. Being class president and newspaper editor aren't the only ways. I think the Nerd Club is wonderful evidence of leadership -- yes, it does take courage to announce to the school as a freshmen that you are a nerd, and I think colleges will see that. Does his interest in anime come through in any other way? Because it sounds like something he loves, and if he can convey that in an essay, that's wonderful.</p>
<p>I would try to schedule some interviews first at schools he doesn't care as much about. That worked well for my daughter. Is he a senior? If he is, it might be too late to do that. As an alumni interviewer, I'll confirm that those interviews when the kid can't keep up a conversation are very difficult. Strong teacher recommendations can help there, too.</p>
<p>"He's an informal leader, usually the guy in the group that gets the project done, the kid who asks the really provocative question during class, but that doesn't quantify on an app."</p>
<p>GeeksRule: This is where picking the right teachers for his recommendations will come into play. His teachers will be able to speak to his value as an interesting contributor to class discussion and to school culture, which will count more to many college professors than top SAT scores. Having been through two cycles of applications now, I am a real believer in the significance of teacher recs in college admissions, especially at the schools that have been cited so far. It is the one piece of the college application that can't be polished or finessed by parental intervention. </p>
<p>I second the recommendation of the University of Chicago, although I don't know anything about their strength in art. Brown would also be worth looking at (check out the history of "Toy Story"). Their applied math and computer science departments are very strong.</p>
<p>I'd also recommend reading "Geeks: How Two Lost Boys Rode the Internet Out of Idaho" by Jon Katz just because it illuminates the world of geeks so well for the clueless non-geek parent of a geek.</p>
<p>Re interviews: depending on your son's academic strength, he might be able to get away without interviews where they are not absolutely required. We received three acceptances where there had been no interviews even when "strongly recommended."</p>
<p>Actually, I love the name Nerds' Club. I bet it would make a great topic for a chat at the interview, or for the application essay! He could talk about how he came to found the club, who's been attracted to join, etc...</p>
<p>Nerds of the world , unite!<br>
Can you guess that I'm the mom of a nerd? Math major and loving it.</p>
<p>I second (or third) University of Chicago. Northwestern will not be a good fit. Big difference in type of student there. If he has any interest in a small school, Reed College would be interesting.</p>
<p>I would skip any non-mandatory interview. I was shy and that's what I did and if my memory is correct, I got into all the schools I applied to which was all top schools except HYPS. If interviews are mandatory (which is very rare), then he must do several mock interviews. It's a life lesson that will serve him in job interviews. You can ask your guidance counselor, pay a college counselor, ask friends who are active with their own alumni association who do interviews to do a mock interview with him. He can improve his interview skills. He can also say to an interviewer, "I'm new at this, give me a minute on that question".</p>
<p>While I certainly agree with the need to look at, in particular, schools like MIT, Chicago, Carnegie Mellon and yes, even Northwestern (you may be surprised to see how the math/CS/engineering kids there are indiscernable from those at the other institutions on this list), I have to voice my support as well for consideration of an alternate environment. </p>
<p>Your son sounds like he has the potential to flourish ("bloom" might be a better word here) in a setting of not only like-minded types but in one that is smaller, more intimate, and more supportive. Given his predilections, schools like Harvey Mudd, Carleton, and Swarthmore should certainly be considered as well.</p>
<p>You mentioned your S wants an e-coast school. He could still apply to Caltech, even tho its west. They don't offer interviews. They do not seem to discriminate among shy applicants, and because the school is small, there are many opportunities to reach out.</p>
<p>GeeksRule (great moniker, BTW):
He is who he is, and shouldn't try to change that.
Do not change the name of the club. </p>
<p>I married into a large extended family of nerds, and believe me, your son sounds VERY outgoing and well rounded from that perspective.</p>
<p>Admissions folks have seen quiet, nerdy types before, and won't be surprised by one word answers. If he wants you to, help him think of a few answers to possible questions for interviews, such as. "What do you want to do when you get out of college?" </p>
<p>Second the motion of looking at Harvey Mudd, MIT, CalTech and anyplace else he wants to go. He sounds like a great kid.</p>
<p>Best wishes for the upcoming roller coaster.</p>
<p>GeeksRule,
I have one of those kids, too. You are getting fabulous advice, and I second/third/fourth Mudd, Chicago, CMU. If you can get him in to sit in on classes, that might help give him things to talk about in an interview.</p>
<p>One suggestion we got was to have family friends come over and talk to DS about what his plans are, what kinds of stuff he's doing, etc. What ultimately worked was a summer math program where he met "his people" and he has just blossomed since then. </p>
<p>If your son is on campus somewhere (even locally), have him go talk to a professor in the math department. Not as a formal interview -- just a chat with someone who is doing the kind of math your S in interested in. They understand these kids. DS has never been turned down by someone when he asked to chat.</p>
<p>I love the Nerd Club. He started this club four years ago, and it's growing and thriving -- that is leadership. I agree with the folks who said you can help him learn how to shape his essays and activities list to reflect the real work he has done.</p>