<p>My son is a sophomore at a very competitive high school. His dream is to attend MIT where he knows many of the current and future students through various math competitions that he is involved in. Everything I have read tells me that grades are the main predictor that colleges use to determine whether a student will be successful at their school and our concern is that his grades will not be good enough to be accepted.</p>
<p>We are worried that he will be labeled as "smart but lazy". He is hardly lazy as he will spend hours studying/ruminating on math problems. He has proven that he has talent in math...perfect scores on American Math Competition, Top 10 rankings in various national competitions and participated in Math Olympiad Summer Program. Is that enough for MIT to overlook his less than stellar grades (especially in English and Social Studies).</p>
<p>Our dilemma: Do we continue to nag, cajole, threaten or do we leave him alone. We want to have a good relationship with him, but are very worried. He is convinced that his grades are not that important and that he will be okay. He has such disdain for the whole college admissions process where his classmates will do many unethical things to get good grades. </p>
<p>We do think that MIT is the perfect fit for him and that he would be very happy there so it would be a huge disappointment if he doesn't get in. Could you share some creative suggestions on how to get him to care more or will he be okay? Any advice/insight would be very much appreciated. Thank you.</p>
<p>If he brings that huge disappointment on himself, it will be a great learning experience. He’ll go to a far less selective, but academically challenging, math/engineering school (Purdue? Clemson?) and get a great education. He’ll have to confront the fact that sometimes you need to to seemingly pointless things to get ahead in life. A lot of smart teenagers have a tough time accepting that.</p>
<p>You haven’t said anything that makes me think he won’t be OK.</p>
<p>"If he brings that huge disappointment on himself, it will be a great learning experience. "</p>
<p>I agree. It’s your son’s job, not your job, to do the work to bring his dreams to fruition.</p>
<p>Lots of people in general aspire to great things, but relatively few have the work ethic to accomplish those great things. </p>
<p>Provide your S with facts about MIT including statistics on students who are admitted, and let him take it from there…</p>
<p>My older S as a smart high school freshman wanted to go to Princeton. I told him what was needed, and we even visited Princeton. He graduated from high school with an unweighted 2.9, and happily went off to a public university.</p>
<p>As a h.s. soph, younger S decided Brown would be the perfect school for him. He ended up almost flunking out of h.s. his senior year despite having scores in the 98th-99th percentile. After a gap year, he happily went to his first choice college – a second tier LAC, where he is a dean’s list student who does the hard work to maintain high grades while working a job and doing ECs related to his major.</p>
<p>You could have him visit MIT and have the admissions people tell him what stats are needed. </p>
<p>If he hears it from THEM, and then he STILL doesn’t care about his grades, then HE WILL have made his decision. At least it will be an informed choice. </p>
<p>I’m convinced that the teen years there still are vestiges of magical thinking: Many teens assume that wishing for something will make it happen.</p>
<p>We parents need to realize that without our offspring backing up their wishes with hard work, their wishes are just as insubstantial as are the wishes of 3-year-olds to be Superman or fairy princesses.</p>
<p>I take college courses for fun, and have been interested to see how many students claim, for instance, to be movie stars, but don’t bother to learn their monologues for acting class . Some aspiring stars don’t even bother to come to class. They’re still depending on magical thinking…</p>
<p>We don’t have to let their dreams become what we think their reality will be. Actions speak louder than words. Just because a young person has the potential doesn’t mean they have the commitment and work ethic to achieve high goals. They probably will be like most people and have relatively happy lives anyway.</p>
<p>This is easy to say, but having one of “those boys” as well, I don’t believe it is humanly possible for a parent to take “well, he will blow his college chances but will learn a lesson approach!” Having said that, I am not sure what works to motivate someone who is too immature to see the consequences of not caring… Having him visit a college or research the real requirements for getting in, may be a wake up call…</p>
<p>Here is a link to the MIT freshman class of 2008-2009 common data. It does not give average gpa for accepted students; however, it does state that gpa is “important.” The percentage of accepted students who were ranked in the top 10% of their class is 97%. Average SAT scores and subject test scores are also noted.</p>
<p>If he is a true math superstar with B/B- in English and Soc Studies, he is probably going to be fine, even at MIT. If he is getting C/C-/Ds, that’s a different story.</p>
<p>I really think it’s best to have him visit MIT and have him hear the admissions req’ts (GPA averages, etc) from an admissions officer.</p>
<p>Sometimes hearing such info from a “non-parent” is more meaningful. Sometimes when a kid hears the info from the parent, he thinks the parent is exaggerating or has another agenda (like expecting Val or expecting the kid to study all the time and have no fun).</p>
<p>“You may care more about MIT then he does.”
Perhaps this is true because I think I know my son more than he does sometimes. He has never fit in throughout his school years, mainly because his academic performance exceeded those of his peers. So when he discovered competition math, we were very happy for him. He became motivated to learn (mostly math unfortunately), finally found friends who understood him and garnered some respect, instead of being thought of as odd. So based on his personality and his strengths, we agree with him that MIT would be a perfect match.</p>
<p>" So based on his personality and his strengths, we agree with him that MIT would be a perfect match."</p>
<p>There probably are plenty of other schools where he would find peers who are his equal, and could also pursue competition math. Anyway, if he’s not getting MIT-level grades, then it wouldn’t be a perfect match for him because he lacks the work ethic that students there have. Right now, his personality isn’t similar to that of the students that MIT accepts.</p>
<p>My underperforming S for whom Brown seemed a perfect match when he was a soph in high school is flourishing at a second tier LAC that actually was a better match for him than Brown would have been. Brown would not have been the perfect place for S, who was a late bloomer. The second tier LAC – which is smaller and more nurturing than Brown – has been the perfect place for S to bloom. He also has surrounded himself with students who are extremely bright, talented and hard working, and he has pursued in depth the interests that had made Brown attractive to him. In fact, due to the LAC’s curriculum as well as the local opportunities, he has been able to do more with his interests than he would have been able to do at Brown. </p>
<p>Don’t think that lower ranked schools lack high achieving, bright students. Such students aren’t in the proportion that they are at places like MIT, but they are certainly present, and the bright students tend to find each other and to participate wholeheartedly in ECs that they enjoy.</p>
<p>I recently posted on a different forum but have to repeat the story here. Our now 25 year old son (the oldest along with a twin sister out of 4 children) was the same. He wanted to attend Berkeley, Caltech, etc. He is extremely bright, but hated high school. He barely graduated, no matter what we did to try to get him thru. He went off to a CC where he would start each semester with 16-18 units and end up with 4. He had no idea what he wanted to do but knew he could not sit behind a desk- he has always been the kid who could take apart anything, modify it and get it back together better than when he started. He moved out (because our rules were too much) and we told him we would continue to pay college expenses but not living expenses since he could live at home and go to a CC. During this time, he worked, usually full time, and learned to pour decorative concrete driveways, put in all types of flooring, do custom truck modifications, etc. He did support himself and did take a few classes at a time (with B’s and C’s.) During this time, his twin got her Bach. and Masters in 5 years, and started teaching high school English. We still encouraged him and supported his choices to his face, but were so frustrated!!! Then when he was 22, he mentioned that he had been talking to an engineer on one of his construction jobs and thought construction management might be a good option. All of a sudden, he buckled down and finished up at CC, with straight A’s in all of his advanced math and pre-engineering classes. He managed to get into a State College in their Civil Engineering program in Construction Management. You can imagine our shock when he again pulled off straight A’s his first semester. At the end of his first year (as a junior) he was nominated for several departmental awards and given a full-tuition scholarship for his senior year. He interned for a large construction management firm his senior year, and was hired full time on graduation, beating out the other 2 interns from USC. His company loves that he comes up with extremely creative solutions, and that he is so hands-on, a result of all of those odd jobs that we tore our hair out over! At graduation, one of his professors told us how much he loved working with our son because he was so enthusiatic and creative. We almost started laughing! All I am saying, is don’t give up!!! Some kids just take longer to mature, especially boys. It is very frustrating to watch, but so rewarding when they finally “get it!” Best of luck!</p>
<p>No one from our high school has been accepted to MIT with a weighted GPA of less than 100. That’s just the way it is. Luckily there are lots of other good tech schools.</p>
<p>“He has such disdain for the whole college admissions process where his classmates will do many unethical things to get good grades.”</p>
<p>? How does he know his classmates are doing such things, and if they really are, why is he standing silently by and not turning them in? One who is aware of wrongdoing, but says nothing, is perpetuating the wrongdoing as much as are those who are doing the wrong actions.</p>
<p>Also, if he’s so bright and has such high aspirations, if he really wants to go to MIT, seems he’d do the work that’s required. </p>
<p>My older S – the one who as a h.s. freshman wanted to go to Princeton-- had a lot of disdain for the educational system in general. He ended up flunking out of a second tier that had given him a virtually full ride based on his scores, courseload, and ECs. At 26, he has never returned to college, but is one of the most widely read people whom I know. He’s very bright, but with his anti standard education outlook that includes his scorn of people who play by the rules to get to college (this includes his scorn for those ethically playing by the rules), isn’t really college material.</p>
<p>Younger S – who’s flourishing at a second tier LAC – had always loved school, admired smart, hard working students, and appreciated good teachers, but just was too lazy to work up to his potential until he went to college after a gap year, a year off that helped him fully appreciate what college offers.</p>
<p>MIT seems to be going for kids who excel across the board these days, rather than for the quirky science/math kids who don’t care much about other subjects. From our HS, in recent years, they rejected the competition math kid and took the all-rounder val.</p>
<p>Your son needs to understand that if he chooses not to work for good grades, he is choosing to limit his future options. Schools will not necessarily discern his superior intellectual capability, and even if they do they may not care, since they can take another kid who is perhaps less gifted but who has consistently displayed a willingness to work harder.</p>
<p>It is sad but true, and enormously frustrating for the parent. And it often springs from the pervasive failure of elementary and middle schools to serve gifted children.</p>
<p>Don’t take him to an MIT orientation. We took our S. The then dean of admissions said that MIT looked for students who scored 600 or above on the SAT. The sound of incredulous “What?” could be heard throughout the packed auditorium. </p>
<p>MIT will overlook less than perfect grades in English and History, but there’s a floor. He should not think of grades as something to get him into college, but as reflection of his ability to do well in college. Remind your son that MIT has HASS, which require writing papers.</p>
<p>“He has such disdain for the whole college admissions process where his classmates will do many unethical things to get good grades.”</p>
<p>He has very low tolerance for dishonesty, so it may seem like an exaggeration. His main complaint is that kids will ask to copy homework or ask about tests taken earlier in the day. </p>
<p>I am glad to hear that so many bright but unmotivated students have fared so well. It is tough for me to sit back and allow him to “learn his lesson” when he has so much potential. Is that my only recourse? How sad.</p>