Advice for violinist daughter - music ed

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I've been reading through many posts about music ed. Violadad, I hope you see this! You are a wealth of information.</p>

<p>We live in NY. My daughter is interested in music education and sees herself teaching in studio preferably. Here are her credentials - All State string orchestra, youth orchestra, chamber music workshops and plays in a group, Advance Ensemble with her Suzuki String group, high school concertmistress. She is also a solid A student and in the top 10% of her class. </p>

<p>She wants a back up to music ed and wants to try a dual degree possibly in math or accounting. This complicates our choices. </p>

<p>We have looked at UofR/ Eastman and Fredonia. She's had 2 master classes with the violin teacher at Fredonia and likes her. We are planning to visit Ithaca and Case Western/ CIM over our February break. I just got word from her teacher that her son's student attended Case as a music ed major and he could not recommend it. We'll still check it out anyway. </p>

<p>Her violin teacher is strongly recommending Hartt School of Music but I see they are light on academics. We've ruled out Oberlin since they don't offer a undergraduate music ed degree. Her teacher told her not to apply to Crane at Potsdam as she is not impressed with the violin faculty there. </p>

<p>Can anyone give us some clarity? Right now, it looks like she only has two schools in the running - Ithaca and Fredonia.<br>
TIA!</p>

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<p>There are a number of threads here discussing the dual degree options. Our resident “linker” Violadad will hopefully link them to this thread. </p>

<p>BUT I will tell you…Music education curriculum in college is a very intense course of study beginning in the freshman year for most schools. There is not a lot of time for other courses in other fields. There are tons of required courses for music education. Add to that…music education majors are still required to play in school ensembles each term (except the term they are student teaching…some schools do not require ensemble participation during student teaching term). Ensembles meet many hours per week for not a lot of credits…but required nonetheless.</p>

<p>I would guess that if your daughter wants to pursue a double major along with music education, most places will likely require a fifth year to complete the two degrees. I can’t see the time to complete a second major along with a music education major.</p>

<p>ALSO…some programs are more “tolerant” of double majors than others. Bassdad can comment here…but it is my understanding that many (but not all) teachers at Oberlin will work with a student who is undertaking music and another major (don’t know if Oberlin has music ed). But in the case of Oberlin, the student must have acceptance to the conservatory for the music part…and to the college for the “other” part.</p>

<p>I would suggest looking into some state universities. If you are considering the costs of Ithaca, the costs of some OOS public U’s won’t be a lot more. State universities have many, many majors and many offer music education as a choice (and math and and and). U of New Hampshire, U Del both offer good music education programs. So does College of New Jersey. I don’t know how easy it would be to double major.</p>

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<p>At first Oberlin looked attractive because of the dual degree. We then discovered they don’t offer undergrad music education. She hasn’t taken her SATS yet but her PSAT scores were decent and could probably translate to SAT scores that would allow her to attend Oberlin. She would need 5 years at Oberlin and then have to get her Master in Music Education. That’s a lot of schooling!</p>

<p>My daughter says she wants to try each major so she’ll have a sense of what she really likes best. She may very well just go with one major, once she figures it out.<br>
I’ll expore the dual degree threads. Thanks.</p>

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<p>Teacher here…if your daughter plans to be a public school teacher…she will be required to get her masters degree in MANY states at some point. Even IF not required, her pay will be higher if she completes a masters. This is in her future anyway if she plans to teach in the public schools.</p>

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<p>I noticed this in your OP. Does your daughter want to teach violin in a private studio? If so, does she realize she does NOT need to have a music education degree to do so? If this is her idea…perhaps majoring in math or accounting would be good with a minor in music…continuing to study her violin and learning good pedagogy for the instrument…would work. She could then get a “day job” in accounting…and teach violin privately as well.</p>

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<p>You’re wise to look at instate for music ed. You’ve already discounted Crane, but one of the SUNYs in or near Buffalo is said to have music ed. There’s some past posts clarifying it, and I’d have to check before committing. </p>

<p>Among the privates Ithaca is a very solid program, as is Hartt. U/Hartford is Tier 3, but the Barney School of Business and Ward College of Technology are highly regarded. Son had peers of all academic ability, and his stats were very similar to your d’s. Also, there is the option of honors program work and the choice to take some of the academic coursework exclusively with Hartt students or the general population. Son took all his academics within the general population, not the Hartt version. I would at least take a good look.</p>

<p>As you differentiate studio versus classroom, is music ed the path she wants? I’ve posted plenty and will be happy to direct you to some links, but your pm indicated you may have already looked at a portion of them. A solid music ed program quickly exposes a student to the environment, and many unsure quickly embrace it, or decide its not for them.</p>

<p>Music ed is designed to achieve certification for k-12 public classroom teaching. You might want to investigate pedagogy, geared to studio instruction and small groups. There are also programs which provide specific method instruction such as Suzuki if she wants to head own that path.</p>

<p>Some programs like Oberlin also offer a BM/MM path as a masters for ed is pretty much a given at least down the road for those going the music ed route. It’s not mandatory initially, but typically is required for continued licensure and pay jumps.</p>

<p>The second liberal arts major could present fewer schedule issues than a science based major, but the rigors of an accounting degree may be just as bad. At larger programs, particularly those that serve an adult population alot of math and business curriculum are offered in late afternoon and evening classes. It’s something to consider, as are summers for some of the liberal arts coursework. It still may be in excess of four years, but it can be possible.</p>

<p>How far afield do you want to look, and are there self imposed financial or geographic restrictions? Where would she like to teach? Have you looked at the programs affiliated with the National String Project? [NSPC:</a> NSPC](<a href=“http://www.stringprojects.org/]NSPC:”>http://www.stringprojects.org/)</p>

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<p>Thumper1 - You’ve hit the nail on the head! When I asked my daughter what she saw herself doing 10 years from now, she said "working maybe as an accountant during the day and teaching violin in my home at night. She’d be busy but accounting is very flexible, except maybe during tax season, and she could set up her lesson time according to her schedule. </p>

<p>Of course she’s still young and undecided. She wants lots of options. She’s doesn’t have any accounting experience yet but she’s tested well in accounting in a career test at high school - plus it’s in her genes. (not from me though!) She may even want to teach in a school. </p>

<p>I realize a master’s in music ed will be needed if she teaches in a school - it’s just an extra year of private college tuition for a dual degree and then more for the masters.</p>

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<p>Music ed is a very focused and sequenced curriculum, and if you want to graduate within the “normal” time frame, one schedule screw up will set you back a semester, maybe three. The programs tend to be small in size, and do not offer a large number of time slots of the same course. Prerequisites abound. There may well be a course or two offered once a year, maybe once every two years, and are mandated as degree requirements. It is typically not a curriculum where you can do a lot of academic exploration in other fields.</p>

<p>And again, music ed is designed to foster (or weed out) those that aren’t committed to k-12 education. The desire to want to teach (in that environment) is key. Most programs don’t embrace those that aren’t committed.</p>

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<p>Suzukimomto2 - based solely on your username, you might want to check out the Suzuki Association (dot org) website where there’s often discussion of universities that offer master’s degrees in Suzuki pedagogy. Your d might find that the atmosphere in a Suzuki-friendly program would be more supportive of her background and goals. One can, of course, obtain Suzuki training over the summer with short term workshops at Suzuki Institutes - another potential option for her if she decides to pursue the accounting as a day job.</p>

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<p>As Violadad pointed out…looking for public instate universities isn’t a bad idea. </p>

<p>If I hit the nail on the head…your daughter’s options are very different than if she wants to be a public school music teacher AND somehow do accounting.</p>

<p>Just FYI…my own daughter plays oboe and English horn. She is an engineering/biology double major. BUT she also hopes she can teach beginning oboe students at some point in time as well. No music degree…but she has continued private lessons and plays in her college orchestra.</p>

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<p>There are a number of options here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/630008-what-music-schools-would-you-recommend.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/630008-what-music-schools-would-you-recommend.html&lt;/a&gt; and a clarification on the SUNY Buffalo in post 22.</p>

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<p>Note that there are two programs of potential interest at Oberlin. One is the usual 5 year dual degree program that results in a BM from the Conservatory and a BA from the College at the end of five years. Oberlin does not offer classes in accounting, so this may be a moot point.</p>

<p>The other program is the Master of Music Teaching sequence. It involves a normal 4-year performance major from the conservatory, except that some of the electives get pinned down to fill requirements for the music ed program and later licensure. The BM is conferred after 4 years as usual, then the music ed portion is mainly taught in the fifth year plus the summer before and after that. Result is still 5 years to get both the BM and the MMT. There are specialties in classroom education and community music programs.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t count out Crane. Both John Lindsay and Sarah Hersh are excellent teachers. Sarah Hersh spent three years studying with Dr. Shinichi Suzuki and wrote her doctoral dissertation on Dr. Suzuki and his methods for teacher training.</p>

<p>I also believe that SUNY Potsdam will allow you to double major outside Crane.</p>

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<p>Yes, Buffalo State. But it’s generally known as the third choice of the three SUNY music ed schools.</p>

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<p>Buffalo State is too close to home. </p>

<p>I talked about these options with my daughter. She seems to think Fredonia is beneath her but I think it’s a great option, considering she’s not positive about her major. I’d much rather have her “experiment” on a lower tutition rate. She knows some musicians from her high school who have gone to Fredonia and thinks they are average. However good she is, she doesn’t want to be a performance major. </p>

<p>I do think we’re going to try to squeeze in a trip to Hartford. Hartt and Ithaca both have good Suzuki programs associated with them. Interesting about Crane and the Suzuki connection.</p>

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<p>Suzuki Mom,
In Los Angeles it has been 74o and sunny. Think out of the box and consider a new major at the Thornton School of Music at USC. Thornton is celebrating their 125th anniversary this year.</p>

<p>Since you daughter is a fine student and is still a bit uncertain about her future plans Thornton is offering a new major which might be of interest. It is a B.A. in Performing & Visual Arts Studio. This is an interdisciplinary program involving the School of Theatre, Thornton School of Music and the famous School of Cinematic Arts.</p>

<p>If she continues her interest in accounting the Marshall School of Business is ranked in the top ten undergraduate business schools. The accounting program is ranked #5 in the U.S.</p>

<p>USC is a private university, but is need blind in admissions. The university has a long tradition of meeting 100% of the USC DETERMINED financial need of applicants.</p>

<p>Midori Oto is chairman of the strings department. She holds the Jascha Heifetz Chair.</p>

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<p>Suzukimom,</p>

<p>Is Indiana Jacobs too far for you? Mimi Zweig is well known as an instructor/pedagogue interested in “younger” (before college) age students with a strong Suzuki connection/respect. IU also offers a Music Ed degree - something the conservatories like CIM will not have. </p>

<p>I’m sure you know, CIM, Eastman and Oberlin are quite competitive for violin, as is Indiana - even for potential music ed majors.</p>

<p>I am a bit confused - your D “doesn’t want to be a performance major”, but that will certainly be the focus of most CIM, Eastman and Oberlin students…</p>

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<p>I think the correct name is Midori Goto.</p>

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<p>fiddlestix - She has ruled out Oberlin, CIM, and Eastman because they don’t offer strong music ed.<br>
One of the students in her teacher’s studio is at Indiana as a performance major and doing very well. Her teacher hasn’t suggested Indiana as a school for my daughter. I’m not sure why. It may be too far.</p>

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<p>Lawrence might be worth a look, especially if you are looking to explore options.</p>

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<p>Have you thought about Penn State? A good friend of mine, a violinist, is a freshman music ed major and absolutely loves it. I’m not so familiar with the academic side of the school, but my friend was also a top-notch student, and seems to be enjoying her classes. If you’re interested, the school’s Philharmonia is playing at Carnegie Hall in March (the 24th, I believe). She studies with James Lyon, and really has benefited from his teaching. The other violin teacher, Max Zorin, is an excellent performer and a Juilliard grad. </p>

<p>Also, I have heard NYU has a good music ed program, and it is definitely a well-regarded school in terms of academics.</p>