Advice needed desperately. Ineligible to transfer from CC due to too many credits.

Parents Forum
1

<p>A few days ago I read the "admissions horror story" thread. Unfortunately, I now need advice on my own horror story. </p>

<p>Let me give you some background first:</p>

<p>I am a January transfer student from a SUNY community college. I didn't go to high school due to chronic illness. The education I received in the hospitals was fairly useless. It was a joke, really. I am smart and hardworking, though, and excelled at CC. </p>

<p>Due to many reasons, I decided not to transfer right away. First, my lack of education and a personal situation at home made an earlier transfer unfavorable.</p>

<p>Second, I took many credits outside of my diploma path, but was encouraged to finish my associates degree. About a year ago, I read that some schools had a policy about not accepting more than 2 years of credit. I became nervous and called a school I was considering (can't remember which one), but the person I spoke with assured me that it wouldn't be a problem since I'd be coming from a 2 year school. I also spoke with advisors from my school and they again encouraged me to finish my associates. Everything in my life led me to the conclusion that the best option was to stay. </p>

<p>Clearly, some of the people I spoke with were misinformed because this brings me to my horror story.</p>

<p>Friday morning I got a call from Wellesley, my second choice college. I was told that they reviewed my transcript and determined that I am ineligible to transfer because I have too many credits. They don't allow applicants to relinquish credits, so I am out.</p>

<p>Then I called Smith, my first choice. I explained my situation and they also said that it's unlikely that I'd be accepted.</p>

<p>I didn't call any of the other schools because, at that point, I was too hysterical to think clearly, let alone speak clearly. I am assuming that the same policy will be a problem at the rest. I took 100 credits altogether, so it is very likely that at EVERY school I will have over 2 years of transferable credit. All of my classes were within a liberal arts degree...</p>

<p>I am pretty much heartbroken right now. I am throwing a pity party for myself, asking myself why am I being penalized for educating myself more. As far as I'm aware, I would need to stay an extra 2 years regardless because I only took classes at the 100 and 200 level. It is not like I have 3 years of credit at a 4 year school; my classes were still all only up to the sophomore level. Also, to my knowledge, most schools don't apply credits to the major. Therefore, I would DEFINITELY need 2 years to finish. </p>

<p>I will call Wellesley on monday to see if maybe they made a mistake and didn't realize that I would not be past those two years. I doubt that it will help, but it will make me feel better to try. After I call them, I will call the rest of my schools to get confirmation about whether I will be ineligible at their schools as well. I started writing a letter to Smith explaining that I would certainly take 2 years there, regardless of credits. I don't know if it will help, but I don't know what else to do.</p>

<p>I am shocked by this. I am frustrated at myself for listening to my incompetent advisors, for not questioning this further, and for being ineligible to attend the schools which, through TONS of research, I know would be my best choices even though I am both willing and required to take 2 more years.</p>

<p>Also, I’m frustrated that simply taking too many classes could be the thing to keep me out. What is wrong with educating myself further? I am a strong applicant otherwise. I may not be the strongest applicant, especially since I didn't go to HS or a four-year school, but I definitely did the best I could with what I had. I have a strong record and a few awards behind me, and my reading SAT is pretty far above their averages (my math isn’t, but I’m a philosophy and psychology major planning on law school, so it isn’t relevant). I have a 3.9 gpa in the honors program, have been really involved in ECs, and have done more than 600 hours of community service altogether in the last few years. And although I didn't work a lot when I was in school, I still managed to work some, and I worked a lot after graduating... All of my teachers really liked me, so I had great recs, and even the Dean of Students threw in a letter along with the "letter of good standing" required from my school (she normally doesn't do that, but she knew me because of my involvement). I am a good student and it SUCKS that this, of all things that have put me down in my life, could keep me from getting where I want to go. I don’t know what I will do if all of my schools reject me because of this. I will probably try to reapply to places that don’t have this policy. It just stinks because I put a lot of work into this and if anybody researched the best schools in EVERY area, it was me.</p>

<p>So, after this very long rant, I’d like to ask for advice.</p>

<p>First: In the event that I don’t get into any of the schools where I applied, can anyone suggest well-known, small liberal arts colleges that allow applicants to relinquish credits? To give you an idea of what I was looking at, here is where I applied: Smith, Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Vassar, Beloit, Bates, Oberlin, Barnard (this one is an anomaly chosen for different reasons, so ignore), Clark University.</p>

<p>Second: *Has anyone else been through this or know someone who has? What did you/he/she do? *</p>

<p>Third: **Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle this? **All I can think of is to write a letter explaining my side of the situation.</p>

<p>If you made your way through this entire post, you deserve a cookie.</p>

2

<p>frazzled, Although I don't have specific experience with your dilemma, I would hope that we could help you find a solution.</p>

<p>First, since you didn't go to high school - it seems as though you started out taking some sort of high school course work at the hospital? When that didn't work out, you switch to taking cc classes? Were any of those class used to earn some sort of high school diploma/equivalent?</p>

<p>Were Wellesley and Smith aware that the total # of cc credits included those "substituting" for high school coursework, that you do not have 100 credits beyond high school?</p>

<p>How do you feel about going to a larger university, if the selective small LACs do turn out to be not an option? What field of study/major do you plan?</p>

3

<p>You don't mention your future career goals. I'm thinking that u could finish degree in the NY system, then apply wherever you'd like for grad school. Given yor excellent GPA, solid recommendations, etc., I think this would be your best path. From experience, the more selective a college is, the less likely they are to accept transfer students forany year.</p>

<p>My S was caught in something similar when in HS. by middle of jr year, he had so many credits from local U that he faced applying to college as a transfer student, rather than a freshman. Because there was no pre-thought, he hadn't taken 1 course that he would need to graduate. To keep this brief, all his credits would have been accepted at state flagship. CMU would also accept him without HS degree and give him soph standing, not junior.</p>

4

<p>Many, if not most, LACs, in my experience, have a 3.5 years residency requirement, with no option for Advanced Standing. So your best option, aside from the one suggested by Bookworm, would be to identify schools where you could transfer in as a junior. These are most likely to be schools that allow for Advanced Standing. I'd look for schools that have minimal general education requirements.</p>

5

<p>Hi. Thanks for the responses:</p>

<p>Andale, I received my diploma because I still technically took classes while in the hospital. They didn't teach much, that is all. After I received my diploma I went to community college as a regular student. None of my college credits counted toward high school, but it did take some time to get used to being a real student. </p>

<p>I know that at this point I may not have the option to be picky, but if I can avoid a large university, it would be best. I know what I want in a college experience and it just doesn't equate to a large school. I've been looking forward to this for a while, and while I hate to sound like a brat, I would really find the large school experience to be disappointing. I know that there are good qualities in every type of school, but I have given a lot of thought to this.</p>

<p>Andale and bookworm:
I plan to study psychology and philosophy, focusing on the ethics of psychological and psychiatric practices. I have a lot of interest in diagnostic stereotyping also. My next step after a BA is law school.</p>

<p>bookworm:
As I mentioned to Andale, I know that at this point I may not have the option to be picky; however, to put it lightly, I view the SUNY schools to be the antitheses of what I want. Really, I have used SUNY Stonybrook as an example of what I don't want on numerous occassions, and Binghamton and the others are no better. I may call NYU on monday also, but I assume that they would have the same issue and I really would be rather unhappy with that experience also.</p>

<p>Again, I hope that I am not coming off as entitled, but I have been looking forward to this for a <em>very</em> long time. College, to me, is more than just a route to grad school. I feel more strongly about this than most people because I felt like I missed out on so much while growing up.</p>

<p>My GPA would not transfer over. Whereever I go, I will be starting over... I am smart and could probably pull off a decent GPA anywhere, but I don't want to be miserable in the meantime. </p>

<p>Marite:
What is "Advanced Standing"? I applied to all of these schools as a junior, because I have a two year degree. I have no desire to transfer in as anything other than a junior, because although I have more than years of credits, they were all at a two year level.</p>

<p>Smith has no requirements, other than a writing-intensive class. I'm not sure they are looking at it as whether I would meet their requirements, so much as whether my credits transfer in as more than 2 years of any of their classes.</p>

6

<p>Some top schools have programs aimed at older people who started college and never finished. I don't know how old you are, but maybe you would fit into one of those programs? I'm very surprised that your community college counselor would be so ill-informed; is there another counselor there you can speak to?</p>

7

<p>Advanced Standing is recognition of prior learning in terms of experience and/or prior studies.</p>

<p>Since you have 100 credits and many colleges award a degree based on 120-130 credits, you essentially have enough credits to have completed junior year and would be coming to college as a senior. The number of credits you have (regardless as to whether or not there was a clean transfer- meaning that all of them would be counted toward your degree) would make you ineligible to meet the residency requirements for you to obtain a degree from many of the schools on your list.</p>

<p>Since most associate degree programs range from 64 to 66 credits, you have 100 credits (34 over the max for an associates and enough to have completed another year of college). I guess my big question would be unless you changed majors a couple of times why did the community college allow you to stay so long?</p>

<p>Regardless of how you feel about your high school and what you did or did not learn, you completed high school and none you did not receive high school credit for any of the college courses you took (your transcript probably reflects that you took these courses as a matriculated student). While you may view SUNY as the anthesis of what you want, they may be your only choice at this time (and even then, some of them will hit you with having too many credits to meet the residency requirement) because you are entitled to a transfer from community college to one of the senior schools.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Really, I have used SUNY Stonybrook as an example of what I don't want on numerous occassions, and Binghamton and the others are no better. I may call NYU on monday

[/quote]
</p>

<p>NYU is just as large as the SUNY schools that you mentioned and it is unlikely that they will accept you as a transfer student.</p>

<p>Right now my biggest concern is that you will run out of FA to pay for your education. If you have been getting a NYS tap award I believe that that has a 5 year limit which means whether or not you have completed a degree, you may no longer be eligible for this funding for NYS schools.</p>

8

<p>If you are not accepted to any of the schools where you have applied, take a look at Grinnell. They seem to have a flexible policy regarding transfer students. There must be other small colleges with similar policies. </p>

<p>[url=<a href="http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/admission/transfercredit/%5DAdmission%5B/url"&gt;http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/admission/transfercredit/]Admission[/url&lt;/a&gt;] Grinnell</p>

<p>
[quote]
A transfer student is allowed to apply a maximum of 62 semester credits of transferable work toward a degree at Grinnell. If a transfer student has more than 62 credits of transferable work, the registrar will work with the student to determine which credits, not to exceed 62, will be accepted.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I do think your idea of contacting the registrar at schools where you have applied and sending a letter explaining your situation for your file is a good one. Be sure to express that you are willing to let go of as many credits as it would take to enable you to transfer in as a junior. Stick around on CC, frazzled, as there are some experienced college counselors that may come online with some sage advise.</p>

9

<p>Frazzled,</p>

<p>First, to have any chance at all at Wellesley and Smith, you MUST write a letter informing them of what you have told us here. Don't make it an excuse -- make it an explanation of why you felt you needed to go to CC (to make up educational deficiencies) and what your ultimate goals are. Although I can't say what your odds are of overcoming this unexpected handicap, I do know that Smith tries to accommodate bright but sometimes unconventional students. Whatever you do, don't write the letter with the underlying assumption that you will be rejected because of your choices. Make it a positive, concise, take-charge kind of statement. You might also want to ask someone who is familiar with your situation to write a supplement to the more traditional recommendation letters.</p>

<p>I don't know of any particular liberal arts schools that will accept a transfer with an associate degree -- in fact, I'm surprised that this was a factor at all. You might want to apply to more schools in the lower tier of your range. I suspect that the more competitive a LAC is, the more strict the transfer criteria, and so you might be a match for schools that would otherwise be safeties. You might want to take a look at Franklin & Marshall, Drew, Susquehanna, The College of New Jersey, Randolf-Macon (only recently co-ed and so mostly women), and Wells (all women). I suggest that you call the admissions offices of all potential additions to see whether an associates degree will be a problem. That way, you're unlikely to waste money on an impossible admission.</p>

<p>That said, I echo the sentiment that you should look at the SUNY system. You might not be able to get into a top liberal arts school right now, but, since your ultimate goal is law school, you need the undergraduate BA degree. You need to make sure that you get in somewhere.</p>

10

<p>I agree that writing a passionate but not emotional letter (describing your illness, your experience in HS, your taking extra cc classes to make up for your "lack" of proper schooling in hs) might help....but.... I have to tell you that many LAC's want you to be educated BY THEM if you are to obtain a degree at their institution. Not fair, but it is what it is. The sad thing is that you were misinformed years ago. Start writing a letter, but also start looking around at other options. There are smaller private U's that have a LAC like atmosphere, that provide a LAC like education that are not like the SUNY system at all they may accept you with some but not all of your credits, and let you start as a junior.</p>

11

<p>You don't want to hear about SUNY's, I know. Each SuNY is a different story. I wondered if SUNY Geneseo, which is small and has an honors academic approach, might be a consideration. Short of that, if you change your mind and look at SUNYBuffalo I think you'll find excellent coursework in your future career..but that has the huge population you don't want. </p>

<p>My Oberlin senior b.f. transferred in as a senior from the U. of Chicago, but that was 30 years ago, so I don't know today. </p>

<p>I agree that the take-charge letter for each and every college is worth it.
I understand how upset you got after talking to just two, but do you have the fortitude to call down your entire list?</p>

<p>I'm hopeful for you and so sorry you're facing this. Let's hope for more good advice from others. Be strong as you can right now. You'll find a way.</p>

12

<br>


<br>

<p>It is fair. The B.A. degree is conferred by individual institutions; It is not a generalized degree. It is an acknowledgment that the degree holder was educated at the degree-granting institution. If one is claiming a diploma from Wellesley, it stands to reason that the courses should be taken at Wellesley.
Lots of schools allow students from other colleges to visit for one year. So, if anything went, a student could claim a Wellesley degree by dint of visiting there for one year and attending Podunk college for the other three.</p>

13

<p>Muffy:
I just turned 22 and don't fit into those programs. I believe that Wellesley and Smith's programs both start around 24.</p>

<p>Both my transfer advisor and class advisor (also the head of Honors) are surprisingly ill-informed. Annoying, because I didn't realize this until far-too-late. Nobody else covers transfers at my school. It really is sad that at a school where most students need to transfer, they have a transfer advisor who doesn't know much. </p>

<p>Sybbie:</p>

<p>Thanks for explaining. </p>

<p>My post explained why I stayed for so long. I don't know if it helps to know, but the personal situation was that my grandmother (who raised me while my dad was running his co. and mom was in school) was bedridden/dying and it was not a good time to leave. In addition, I took classes that I wanted to take (painting, philosophy, etc.) that were outside of my degree because I A) think that learning is awesome and not just a path to a degree and B) didn't know if I would get the chance to take them again at a four-year school. </p>

<p>"why did the community college allow you to stay so long?"
Again, our community college has very poor advising. Also, you can attend a community college for 50 years and they wouldn't say anything. It is a business and they don't monitor things that closely. I don't think that they knew that having too many classes would be held against me. </p>

<p>"may call NYU on monday also, but I assume that they would have the same issue and I really would be rather unhappy with that experience also</p>

<p>I have no desire to attend NYU (my mom is an alumna, so I would have applied there to begin with if I had wanted to attend). It would be a better option than a SUNY, that is all.</p>

<p>"...you will run out of FA to pay for your education"</p>

<p>My father is willing and able to pay for my education. We wouldn't get financial aid anyway. My earlier comment about my advisor and how he has never heard of finaid was simply to point out that he had no basis for saying that to anyone.</p>

<p>ASAP: THANK YOU! Grinnell is exactly the type of school I am looking for. In fact, it made it to the last round of schools until I narrowed down to my final list. You're awesome, thank you again. </p>

<p>Momwaitingfornew:</p>

<p>I will certainly write a letter to Smith. I assuming that calling Wellesley would be better, since they already made their decision that I am ineligible (bad idea?).</p>

<p>Thank you for your suggestions. I will keep them in mind. Maybe having someone write a supplemental letter would be wise. </p>

<p>I'm pretty sure that all schools accept students with associates degrees. I suppose most people with associates graduate in two years though. </p>

<p>Wells is co-ed now. :)</p>

<p>Except for Wells, which has rolling deadlines, I would need to apply to these schools for Sept (I intended to be a Jan. admit). </p>

<p>8 out of my 9 schools don't have graduate programs. That was intentional. I guess I just may not get this. You're right though, I need to get in somewhere...</p>

14

<p>Sunnyflorida:
"I have to tell you that many LAC's want you to be educated BY THEM if you are to obtain a degree at their institution."</p>

<p>What would be the difference if I, with 3 years under my belt, took 2 years at their school, as opposed to if someone with 2 years under his/her belt took 2 years at their school? I am not asking for them to give me a degree without the 2 years... I couldn't finish my major within 1 year even if I wanted to...</p>

<p>Payingtuitions: Geneseo is the best SUNY option, yeah. I will call the rest of my schools on monday. And thank you for your kindness.</p>

15

<p>Can you make a trip to talk to Smith? You say they're your first choice. Sometimes it's harder to say no to a real person than to a voice on the phone. Call and see if you can make an appt with the Admissions Director (or your regional rep), whomever that is, rather than talking to the admissions secretary. Smith</a> College: For Transfer Students
You need to talk to the person(s) who can say yes, not the people who are trained to say no.</p>

16

<p>Evergreen State is a very interesting school that has lots of adult students. I don't know how they would handle this issue, but they seemed to be flexible in many ways.</p>

17

<p>dmd77, that is a brilliant idea! Thank you. I will call Smith ASAP on monday. Perhaps that would seem pushy, but I think that I come off better in person than in paper anyway, and you are right: maybe once she sees me, it would be harder to say no. I met with Felicia (my regional director) for my interview, but I'm assuming that Audrey Smith (Dean of Enrollment) or Deb Shaver (Director of Admission) would be the best to speak with...</p>

18

<p>frazzled, I hope this works out. The folks who work in Smith's admissions office are (in my experience) very nice people.</p>

<p>Smith, btw, requires you to be on campus for two years (someone earlier suggested that some LACs have a 3.5 year residency requirement). A number of people transfer in for their last two years of college.</p>

19

<p>DMD77 wrote:</p>

<p>
[quote]
You need to talk to the person(s) who can say yes, not the people who are trained to say no.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think I'm putting this up in my home as a banner. Maybe a bumper sticker, too.</p>

<p>Well said. </p>

<p>OP, make it yoiur mantra!</p>

20

<p>Borgin:
Thanks. I really hope that this work out also. And I would LOVE to be on Smith's campus for 2 years. Maybe the people who made this policy think that
most people who have many credits see the extra time as a burden, but I don't. I would need to take 2 years regardless, but I would actually enjoy the years.</p>