This is probably true to an extent, but UMD had a huge bump in applications this year and was very competitive. I might see it as a fallback to Mich, but I would not think of it as a safety overall.
Not sure how OOS compares because I am in state, but I have seen much angst and anger over admissions here!
Yeah- my point is OPâs son is - while probably a great kid and obviously a fine student - like many, is delusional into what he thinks are âassuredâ acceptances. Even a school like UMD should likely be considered a target, not a safety. And everyone needs safeties - even those who donât end up using them.
Yes, Rutgers - absolutely. I canât think of a reason not to add it as a safety if youâre in NJ while continuing to aim for âhigher rankedâ schools. A lot of HS kids in NJ with the âT20 or bustâ mentality tend to dismiss Rutgers as somehow beneath them.
Last cycle when one of our friendâs kid was applying he didnât have Rutgers on his list at all. I asked him why and he said âtheyâre not well ranked for CS. Theyâre like #40. I want to go to CMU or Caltechâ. I pointed out that of the 1000+ schools offering CS majors, 40 wasnât bad at all. He ended up applying and got admitted with a nice scholarship. He didnât get in to CMU or Caltech but did get into a couple of his reach schools. He ultimately enrolled at Cornell - but having Rutgers with scholarship helped him a lot mentally as he went through the whole process and he did consider it very seriously especially due to the cost differential.
Make him get a job for the Summer. The job I had in HS motivated me to do well in HS and college so I didnât have to it for a living. I was a maintenance guy at a country club(glorified janitor). I worked with some twentysomethings and I think a guy in his 30s. I knew right then I needed to be serious about school so I didnât end up like those guys.
Exactly. Iâm a big proponent of better safe than sorry - especially with the level of competition at elite schools these days. Who wants to risk a shut out?
So you want to force a student who wants to take advanced academic classes to do janitorial work instead, so that he becomes serious about school. Hmmmmmmm
I think what @gpo613 is trying to say, is itâs always valuable to go out and see a bit of the world as well. Itâs been established that this kid is smart, but that is only one important aspect of life. I agree with him, I bussed tables at a restaurant as a teen and my hubby parked cars at a country club. We are now in the top 2% of income earners (I had a full-ride merit scholarship to college as well)
Every experience shapes who you are.
But that isnât what he said. The implication was that some action needed to be taken to make the student a serious student (not a well rounded applicant or person as you suggest).
I am sure @gpo613 is more then capable of expressing his own thoughts.
People shouldnât take any numbers this year all that seriously. Test optional and shopping ACT vs. SAT scores greatly inflates the data. UMDâs average composite SAT was 1375 on their 2020 CDS. So when they state that 80% of this yearâs class is above 1375, what they really mean is that 80% of the 33% of the class that actually submitted SAT scores was above a 1375.
That we wonât know til we see the CDS - but you can make that argument about schools like BU, Wesleyan (40+% are TO)âŠoh, and Michigan 
But we saw posters with 1500 SATs getting turned down (CS) at UMASS and UMD on the board.
Physics will be less likely to be rejected at those #s.
The point was simply to say - at the upper echelons (and this doesnât mean just top 10), itâs getting harder.
There are less students overall so it is not harder to get into college - but it appears to be in the top - I donât knowâŠ60, 100, etc. Everyone (student wise) is trying to creep upward.
The OP pointed out their kid looks down upon everywhere not MIT and Cal Tech - even to say some Ivies are beneath him.
I donât know OP - it could be they will be in for a rude awakening - and end up at a Rutgers, Pitt, or MarylandâŠor community college because their lowest ranked app was a Vanderbilt, etc.
Thatâs all.
This is a 15 year old we are talking about. My S wonât even discuss specific schools yet. He is making comments based on reputations of cities. I am sure that with time, maturity and speaking with other kids and a guidance counselor that he will get a rounded list. But for the summer and OPâs question, the discussion of the kids list of acceptable schools doesnt seem totally relevant.
Yes and no. Itâs getting harder for people with âhighâ standardized test scores. However, valedictorians who score a 1400 have a much better chance of getting into top schools, now, since they can just eat their scores. We see the same thing with more students taking both the SAT and the ACT, since more students are now able to cherry-pick their higher test score. Finally, schools no longer issuing class rank gives more students a shot at elite admission. So on one hand, itâs harder for the traditionally excellent students (high rank, high SAT) but easier for everyone else - at least in the sense of widening the net.
Donât forget ACT âsuper scoringâ.
To return to the OPâs question - it would be great if you and your son could come to a compromise that would allow a family vacation AND opportunities for the academic enrichment your son is looking for. Iâm not sure what that compromise should be, but I do believe taking time away as a family is really important - especially as our kids grow older and the opportunities become more limited.
I met no real implication that some action was needed. I only conveyed my own experiences. I didnât really need the motivation to stay in school and be serious, but when times were hard in school I drew on that experience of working to help keep me going.
That being said kids need to experience the world. My D19 goes to school with plenty of entitled brats that are quite helpless in the real world. Just on Saturday while working her job at the student union info desk a girl came up and asked who could she talk to about financial aid. D19 replied the name of the office and that is was open during normal business hours. The girl was mad that should couldnât talk to someone immediately and she conveyed that to D19.
Yes - I admit that I have been a bit âtornâ about what advice is best.
I was a high-achieving student, and basically hardly ever studied for anything, barely did assignments, yet was able to just âgetâ math, physics, etc. So yes, as an 8th or 9th grader I pursued âacademicâ interests without any particular direction in my free time - I might get books on Astronomy for a while, other times I might delve into the science of âsound engineeringâ (this was the 70s - so everything was still analog and circuit boards.)
It certainly wasnât burning me out - it was just something I was intellectually ready for and was curious about.
So in one sense, Iâd say âwhy notâ, IF the student was just satisfying his curiosity and a âpureâ craving to learn.
BUT (big but), then I sense that this student is already having an eye on Ivy League schools - and that is a line of thinking I would definitely not indulge. It would let him set unrealistic expectations for himself, and in a few years, when decisions come in, the feeling that the had âwastedâ all this time and efforts.
The reality is that >90% of the kids who will all be similarly gifted, with similar test scores, and similar GPA will be REJECTED at these schools. And itâs NOT because they lack anything, itâs because the Colleges lack the space to take them all.
Yes, sometimes one can improve oneâs odds when gambling - but only to a degree! Anything beyond that is moot: At the end, Ivy League admissions is still a game of chance.
Why would high stats students necessarily have it harder than others? High stats students have a greater range of potential safeties than low stats students. Of course, if their self-imposed floor of eliteness prevents them from considering anything that could be a safety, that is a self-inflicted problem.
Not harder than others applying now. Harder than similar high stats students had it in the Before Times. The comment was in response to what colleges now constitute targets and safeties and the difficulty of admission. Itâs not harder for every student to get into UMD in 2022 compared to 2020; rather, test optional makes it harder for some and easier for others. Itâs changed the student mix. Iâm not making a value judgment on that change, Iâm just describing it.
Are you in MD? I am, and the number of applications and need to be competitive in SATs, GPA, ECs, etc has greatly increased since 2020. Last year had a steep incline, and this year has another! People on local listservs are posting about students w/ high 1400s SATs getting rejected. Where does this 33% stat come from? Even if some applied TO or w/ ACT, that doesnât necessarily inflate SAT stats. TO applicants would have to have had outstanding merits to recommend them w/o test scores. They bring their own heat!
Anyway, sorry to digress. But, UMD, which many of us considered a safety until recently, is no more. Target, yes. Safety, no.
Op and son- you sound like terrific people.
Son- a huge red flag in your note is your admitting that you need help with English. Take a look at MITâs core AND GIR (General Institute Requirements). These are not fluffy humanities classes taught for easy Aâs for brilliant physicists- these are challenging classes with thousands of pages of reading and huge research papers assigned- like at any other university.
My son (who loved to read, was a strong writer, loved history and literature, etc.) was not astonished at the level of his classmates in math and science- he was astonished at their skills in reading, assimilating huge amounts of information quickly, connecting the dots between works of literature and events in history, analyzing political movements from 100 years ago and recognizing their importance today.
If this isnât you- then perhaps spending the summer in Europe (wow! what an opportunity after Covid), focused on the history and culture and politics and art of the place you are visiting, might be a better investment of your time and passion than doubling down on math and science.
Another observation- my sonâs friends did NOT have what other people consider âMIT ECâsâ. They had jobs (fast food, lifeguarding), they were accomplished swing-dancers and fencers, they played musical instruments even though they werenât planning to major in music (one was a conservatory caliber musician), they did volunteer work.
Have you ever had a job? Have you done volunteer work? Do you have hobbies?
You might want to develop some other interests! Not because thatâs what colleges want- but because you have your whole life ahead of you and itâs more fun with bridge or yoga or stamp collecting or watercolor painting or civil war reenacting or cake decorating or knitting. The fact that colleges donât want one-dimensional âall I do is mathâ students aside- you will be happy with a more balanced kind of life.