Advice needed please

College Majors Business Major
1

<p>Hi,
I'm currently interested in pursuing a carrer in MIS. However, I didn't do as well as I would've liked in HS so I'm currently at Rutgers. Right now, they took off their MIS Major program, which was extremely disappointing. So I was wondering what would be the best path for me to take.
I figured I would major in Business Management in general and pysch minor, work, then get a MBA in MIS at a grad school. But one thing that is really haunting me is the idea of a second major. People are telling me ranges from it being "useless" to it being a very important factor if you're coming from a non-ivy school. I'm not exceptionally interested in economics, but I believe that would be the second major I would try to get into. </p>

<p>All in all, I'm wondering really how necessary a double major would be for me? And if my prospective path is on-track for a carrer in MIS. Thanks in advance!</p>

2

<p>any advice??</p>

3

<p>MBA schools accept students from a wide variety of majors. Just have good grades, good jobs/internships/extracuriculars, and gmat.</p>

<p>from my experience double majors and minors are not really necessary. it will rarely be a deal breaker.</p>

<p>i tell everyone not to focus too much on double majors or minors based on others besides yourself. ask yourself if you are interested? can you succeed? what are the benefits and negatives?</p>

4

<p>The easiest way to replicate an MIS degree is through a ba program and intelligently selecting CS electives. You could always do well at Rutgers and transfer, too. I wouldn't look ahead at an MBA this early on, you never know where you're going to end up 4 + 2-5 + 2 years from now.</p>

<p>You could kind of focus on industrial or organizational psychology which draws certain parallels to business administration if you end up not liking ba, but the main thing in your case is picking something you know you like early on and something you know you'll do well in. If your ultimate goal is working in business and you're not that far along in your undergraduate studies you're better off going through two years at Rutgers in something you like that'll result in you having a high GPA and good recommendations and then transferring for your last two years. Truthfully, if you want to get the best internship possible in your junior and senior years it's better to have a 3.5+ GPA in anything at HYP+whatever than a 4.0 in business or MIS at Rutgers, even though Rutgers has a fairly solid alumni network.</p>

<p>If you still really want to do MIS you could always take a look at Cornell's IS/ISST core requirements and try and duplicate them in your first two years at Rutgers, then submit transfer apps to Cornell and a few other schools (CMU IS, McCombs MIS, etc).</p>

5

<p>Can you hack it in Computer Science? If so, that is your best option. Otherwise, I'd recommend transferring.</p>

6

<p>^ The core requirements of most CS programs and MIS/IS/ISST programs are very similar with the general difference being that the latter are going to have introductory business courses in the first few years. If he just looked around and structured his first two years to take the cores of business administration and CS with a few electives he should put himself in a solid position if he decides to transfer.</p>

7

<p>zerga, i have a question for you since you're at rutgers.</p>

<p>is the undergrad business school really moving to camden next year??</p>

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<p>
[quote]
^ The core requirements of most CS programs and MIS/IS/ISST programs are very similar with the general difference being that the latter are going to have introductory business courses in the first few years.

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</p>

<p>I can't really agree here. CS degrees are much more difficult and technical.</p>

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If he just looked around and structured his first two years to take the cores of business administration

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</p>

<p>Why would he want to take those classes?</p>

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and CS with a few electives he should put himself in a solid position if he decides to transfer.

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</p>

<p>Why transfer? I don't believe he mentioned anything about transferring.</p>

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<p>
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I can't really agree here. CS degrees are much more difficult and technical.

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Of course they're much more difficult. IS degrees especially almost always have no EE courses. But the core requirements are pretty much identical at most schools--CS101, a couple of CS courses in the 200 and 300s, data structures, calculus I + II, a course in software development. Then they branch off in different directions. That's more than enough (along with business administration courses) to fill up two years of study.

[quote]
Why would he want to take those classes?

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If he's set on an MIS degree it's the best way to structure his courses to transfer into a program similar to it.

[quote]
Why transfer? I don't believe he mentioned anything about transferring.

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"didn't do as well as I would've liked in HS so I'm currently at Rutgers"
He doesn't seem thrilled to be there and he wants to major in something that is nonexistent at his school. If he wants to major in it, he has to transfer.</p>

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<p>My point is that he could get a job in IT with a CS degree. If he can handle the CS weedout classes, getting a CS degree is probably his best option.</p>

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<p>He could get a job in IT with a GED. Or a degree in EE, or philosophy, or astrophysics. He doesn't even need a minor in CS. IT, especially what we generally think of IT (acting as a sysadmin), is one of the few industries that's heavily merit-based, where work experience trumps almost everything else.</p>

<p>MIS is a pathway into technology consulting, managing IT departments, etc. There are plenty of similarities, but there are also significant differences. A CCIE will get a $150,000+ salary out of the box even if he's a drug addicted high school dropout--and you don't need a degree in anything to get that certification. It's important he have some general idea what he'd like to do, because IT isn't really that hard an industry to get into--you just need to work in it for a while, and you'll probably have a ceiling a college graduate won't.</p>

<p>If he's really interested in MIS, he might at least try to structure his courses while he's at Rutgers to get a gist for it. If he doesn't like it he's in a good position to at least finish a minor or major in business administration or computer science, and then focus in on something else. If he does like it he's in a good position to transfer to a great program.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
He could get a job in IT with a GED. Or a degree in EE, or philosophy, or astrophysics. He doesn't even need a minor in CS. IT, especially what we generally think of IT (acting as a sysadmin), is one of the few industries that's heavily merit-based, where work experience trumps almost everything else.

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</p>

<p>How many years of experience do you have in IT exactly? Employers will come to campus to specifically recruit CS majors and place them in IT departments. I'm also not sure how a philosophy degree would prepare someone for a career in IT. I certainly never came across anyone in IT with that background.</p>

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because IT isn't really that hard an industry to get into

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<p>Unless you know for certain how the market will be when he graduates, that is a load of crap. I know 30+ students who had their offers in IT pulled when I graduated. It is a very volatile field, and the job market in IT was pretty dead for several years.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If he's really interested in MIS, he might at least try to structure his courses while he's at Rutgers to get a gist for it.

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</p>

<p>Recruiters could care less if he has taken "intro to marketing" or "business law". The easiest way to be successful in IT is to be highly technical, and as a CS major you will be far more technical than MIS majors. The CS curriculum should offer a project management course and analysis/design which will cover the less technical areas which are necessary in IT.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
How many years of experience do you have in IT exactly? Employers will come to campus to specifically recruit CS majors and place them in IT departments. I'm also not sure how a philosophy degree would prepare someone for a career in IT. I certainly never came across anyone in IT with that background.

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Out of a sampling of 6 people I'd probably consider my closest friends, 4 are in IT, 2 in a management capacity. If that's not enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you. We're apparently talking about very different kinds of work. I'm talking about making a living working for small or mid-size companies and being a member of a small IT team--or being the IT team. Life working for a major company is a different beast, but experience still trumps anything else. CS is not the same as being a general sysadmin, not everything learned in CS will be applicable to IT. You're talking about enterprise work--operations architecture stuff. That's not what the entirety of the IT industry is. IT, as most people consider it (including me), is a lot closer to working at the tech help desk at a college and showing people how to use Microsoft Outlook correctly than working on etf's and being an electrical engineering doctoral candidate.

[quote]
Unless you know for certain how the market will be when he graduates, that is a load of crap. I know 30+ students who had their offers in IT pulled when I graduated. It is a very volatile field, and the job market in IT was pretty dead for several years.

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I stand behind what I said. IT is an incredibly robust field, and the only exception is when the entire economy is impacted by a recession (which would bring about problems in all industries). Whether or not you have experience for the position is another matter, but a degree != experience. Even when there is a recession in a specific field, IT is still a much easier industry to get into than most facets of business when there's a hiring freeze. Ask all the kids graduating this year wanting to go into IB how their job prospects are looking.</p>

<p>School districts and smaller companies are always hiring people to do grunt work, or work they don't understand. Just because you know 30+ students who had their offers pulled doesn't mean there isn't a job market. Yes, the IT job market was painful for many years after the tech crash, but there were jobs available at the bottom. Working for IBM or Microsoft or a major financial company isn't the entirety of IT work.

[quote]
Recruiters could care less if he has taken "intro to marketing" or "business law". The easiest way to be successful in IT is to be highly technical, and as a CS major you will be far more technical than MIS majors. The CS curriculum should offer a project management course and analysis/design which will cover the less technical areas which are necessary in IT.

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It's couldn't care less. If they could care less, that means they care, which is the opposite of the point you were trying to make.

[quote]
Information technology (IT), as defined by the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), is "the study, design, development, implementation, support or management of computer-based information systems, particularly software applications and computer hardware."

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Specific advanced focus on single programming languages, graphics, architecture/organization, most anything in EE and AI is essentially irrelevant to IT--and they're all parts of a CS program. MIS is heavily focused on management and basic technical work. Being a CS graduate would be a boon in anything computer oriented, but it isn't nearly as applicable to most IT work as a regular IS or MIS program is. They're much more vocational, CS is much more theory.</p>

<p>IT = networking and network security, maintaining computer hardware, database and basic software design, maintaining intra or extranets, administration. You can be an effective IT manager by having taken a couple of community college courses, having worked with multiple operating systems and having built and rebuilt computers since you were a kid. If he wants to go into MIS, he's probably interested in working in management with more of a focus on technology (because that's what MIS is). You don't need a CS degree to do that, or a doctorate in electrical engineering. Most facets of a CS wouldn't even be applicable and the easiest way to be successful in IT is to read a lot, have a basic aptitude for computer and network maintenance and be able to explain basic concepts to people who are ignorant of technology.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
IT, as most people consider it (including me), is a lot closer to working at the tech help desk at a college and showing people how to use Microsoft Outlook correctly than working on etf's and being an electrical engineering doctoral candidate.

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<p>You have a very limited understanding of what IT is. If he desires to work on the help desk, then he should go to ITT Tech or just drop out of college (or perhaps move to India). </p>

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It's couldn't care less. If they could care less, that means they care, which is the opposite of the point you were trying to make.

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</p>

<p>Actually, it is simply a euphemism which has changed over the years.</p>

<p>
[quote]
can be an effective IT manager by having taken a couple of community college courses

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</p>

<p>Really? Most of the IT managers I know have MBAs.</p>

<p>Regardless, I think he is attending college to get a job. So, if he wants a low paying job with little upward mobility then I'd recommend that he takes your advice. If he wants a high paying job (relative to most undergrad majors) with more upward mobility, and the ability to land a job at top companies including IT consulting companies then I suggest he take the advice from someone who has more than 5 years of post graduate work experience in IT..aka me.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Actually, it is simply a euphemism which has changed over the years.

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Common usage does not usurp incorrect usage. Semantically it's a statement that serves the opposite of its intended purpose.

[quote]
Really? Most of the IT managers I know have MBAs.</p>

<p>Regardless, I think he is attending college to get a job. So, if he wants a low paying job with little upward mobility then I'd recommend that he takes your advice. If he wants a high paying job (relative to most undergrad majors) with more upward mobility, and the ability to land a job at top companies including IT consulting companies then I suggest he take the advice from someone who has more than 5 years of post graduate work experience in IT..aka me.

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From reading your posts in the past I think you're one of the more knowledgeable people on this forum, and because of that I don't really want to argue with you--but I think we're talking about vastly different aspects of the same industry. You're specifically talking about enterprise-level work and consulting, and I'm talking about what I consider average IT work to be. My analogy wasn't the equivalent of saying most IT is only grunt work, but I think it's a lot closer to that grunt work than it is to software and hardware development.</p>

<p>IT, as a day to day job and not in the context of consulting, is about maintenance and management of computer networks and computers on said network--whether it be for a small company with two servers and fifteen computers, or a large company with an IT staff of 200. Do you agree? If you do, then you'd have to agree that a CS program isn't directly applicable to most IT work in the way an IS or MIS degree is--in that the IS and MIS programs are more vocational in nature. A CS graduate will be able to do anything an IS or MIS graduate will be able to do, an IS or MIS graduate will not be able to do everything a CS graduate will be able to do--but IS and MIS programs are specifically oriented to this one aspect of technology. If he wants to go into IT work, and he wants to be in management, he's better off in an IS/MIS program.</p>

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<p>I'm gonna agree with VectorWega, a CS degree would be very relevant to IT the difference being IT students are not as technical. I know tons of IT graduates and I can't name one working at the "apple genius bar" or something of the like. The help desk jobs are jobs anyone can be trained for, while IT is a team of individuals working closely with business managers to develop and maintain software, servers, networks, and other technologies businesses tend to use (blackberry servers, remote account access, etc)</p>

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<p>^ IS</a> Major Requirements | Information Systems Program, Carnegie Mellon University
Cornell</a> Information Science</p>

<p>What, then, would those be if not training to develop and maintain software, servers, networks and other technologies business tend to use?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
IT, as a day to day job and not in the context of consulting, is about maintenance and management of computer networks and computers on said network--whether it be for a small company with two servers and fifteen computers, or a large company with an IT staff of 200. Do you agree?

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</p>

<p>No, that is just a piece of IT. Many of the people you are referring to probably work in some sort of Data Center and largely serve as support for other IT teams. These include a variety of different groups, many of which are largely composed of Computer Science graduates (examples including Websphere Admins, Unix Admins, Microsoft Server Engineers, etc). Other groups may be largely composed of HS grads (helpdesk for example) and/or people with certain certificates.</p>

<p>However, in an IT department, most teams will be working on new projects and/or serving as primary support for existing projects. These teams are composed of software developers, project managers, and analysts (gather business requirements, analyze data structures, explain the business to developers, etc).</p>

<p>If a team is supporting a complex C++ application (for example), it is quite likely that most of the members of the team will be Computer Science graduates.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If he wants to go into IT work, and he wants to be in management, he's better off in an IS/MIS program.

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</p>

<p>No. Whether he can move into management will be based on his job performance. It is not uncommon for the highly technical to move into management (if they desire). This is especially true for highly technical teams who would not respect a non-technical manager.</p>

<p>Obviously, if he did major in CS, he would probably be hired into a more technical role. However, it is quite common for people to transition from development to project mgt or analysis roles.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
No. Whether he can move into management will be based on his job performance. It is not uncommon for the highly technical to move into management (if they desire). This is especially true for highly technical teams who would not respect a non-technical manager.</p>

<p>Obviously, if he did major in CS, he would probably be hired into a more technical role. However, it is quite common for people to transition from development to project mgt or analysis roles.

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This I agree with, because plenty of people end up in "business" roles that don't have a traditional business administration background.</p>

<p>Still, out of college, I'm not seeing a big difference here (with the obvious difference being that SCS graduates are placing into software roles):
<a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/scs.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/scs.pdf&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/infosys.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/infosys.pdf&lt;/a>
[url=<a href="http://ism.cmu.edu/Full-Time/Job-Placement/index.asp%5DInformation"&gt;http://ism.cmu.edu/Full-Time/Job-Placement/index.asp]Information&lt;/a> Systems Degree @ Carnegie Mellon<a href="I%20figure%20this%20is%20somewhat%20relevant%20since%20it's%20a%204-1%20and%20it's%20where%20the%20largest%20number%20of%20IS%20graduates%20went%20to">/url</a></p>

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<p>
[quote]
Still, out of college, I'm not seeing a big difference here (with the obvious difference being that SCS graduates are placing into software roles):

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</p>

<p>The main difference is simply that CS is a more technical degree, but there is overlap. Ex: CS degree working as project manager or business analyst;</p>

<p>Technical/engineering companies often primarily only recruit CS. Examples from the list include Microsoft, Google, Raytheon, and Lockheed Martin.</p>

<p>It does not appear that many MIS students from Carnegie Mellon go into development. However, in my MIS class, most students went into consulting or development.</p>

<p>With good soft skills, it is very easy to transition from technical to non-technical but is more difficult for someone to transition from non-technical to technical.</p>