Advice on finding higher math classes?

Parents Forum
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This is my first thread, so I hope I’ve found the right forum for it. I was hoping some parents here have gone through this and have some recommendations so I chose this forum, but I’m not sure about the rules for students posting on here.

Now to my question: I’m a homeschooled sophomore and am looking into which math classes I could take next year. By next fall I’ll have taken: AP Calc BC, differential equations, multivariable calculus, and likely linear algebra. I’ll also have finished the math sequence at the community college that I currently dual enroll in, with the exception of stats (AP-equivalent except just one semester).

I was wondering if anyone here had recommendations for:

  1. What math classes I could look into next, either general branches or specific classes.
  2. Where I could find them: I’ve looked at other community colleges without finding anything higher. I’d prefer an actual classroom to an online class, since I find I learn better that way, but I can do online too. Also, my mom asked me to look into dual enrollment at 4yr colleges–does anyone have suggestions as to where I could start (I’m in California and have looked at CSUs and UCs without finding anything)
  3. Are there drawbacks to taking too many advanced classes in high school? Specifically, will I either have to retake them in college, or will I be able to skip and later find they don’t provide a good enough foundation for higher classes?

I’m currently interested in engineering (likely mechanical) or computer science, but that is very subject to change. Other advanced/AP classes I’ll have taken by the end of this year: AP Physics C (both), AP CS, AP Lang, AP Lit, and APUSH (either self-study, online, or dual enrollment). I’m hoping to take C++ at a community college over the summer, since in the fall and spring they were completely full.

Also, since I’ve typed this all up already…does anyone happen to have suggestions for English and CS classes after AP Lit and AP CS / intro+advanced C++ respectively?

Thank you for reading through this and for any suggestions you may have! :slight_smile:

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These aren’t for college credit or maybe even regular credit (I believe), but the Art of Problem Solving offers some interesting math courses online.

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You have completed most of the typical frosh/soph math courses. From there, your choices will be based on your potential major or elective interests. Most of the following will only be found at four year schools.

Computer science: discrete math is typically required. CS theory courses will be very math like. Some areas will use abstract algebra and number theory.

Engineering: varies by field. Advanced courses in such areas a complex analysis and partial differential equations may be relevant.

Economics (mathematical, pre-PhD) or statistics: real analysis, proof-based linear algebra, in-depth calculus-based probability and statistics.

Physics: real analysis, complex analysis, abstract algebra.

Math: real analysis, complex analysis, abstract algebra, proof-oriented linear algebra, and others. For pre-PhD preparation, it is best to take these in a strong math department.

Which CCs, UCs, and CSUs are nearby to you?

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That’s a challenge, but here are some options:

– Does your community college offer Discrete Math in the CS department? That is a useful class.

– Don’t just dis AP Stats because it’s easy. It’s still useful information, even though college-level stats for technical majors is calc-based.

– What UC and/or CSU is within commuting distance for you? I know our local UC has a program for a up to 8 seniors and perhaps juniors, though it generally fills up with seniors. It is difficult to find online, so I didn’t know about it until I heard about if from a parent and from our HS counselor. It is kind of a secret–you have to go in person to a specific office in the admin building to get the brochure and application form.

– Are any of your CC professors willing to teach you an independent studies or practicum class? There may be benefits to the professor for adding something like that.

– Have you done things through AoPS? The community aspects seem like they would be good for you.

– Is there a local math circle for you?

– Have you taken AMC, AIME, etc? What about group math competitions–ARML, Cal Math League? Competitive summer math programs?

– As far as CS classes, Data Structures was the most useful class I’ve ever taken.

– Try the problems at USACO and Project Euler now that you have done AP CS. They should especially appeal to you because of your interest in math.

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Let me throw out a crazy idea here - take a GED test and get your HS diploma and apply and attend a four year college. If you are out of classes in so many HS subjects maybe it is time to move on.

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@Andr01d‌ Clearly you are a bright student. Don’t even out the accomplishments by getting your GED. Not dissing GED at all, but in a college’s eyes, that equates to not being able to complete HS so you dropped out. You are obviously a gifted child (plus a homeschooler) so don’t sell yourself short in that aspect. You can always Google “GED Homeschooler” to read up on why it’s a controversial issue.

You should definitely consider more specific classes at a CC or even a bigger school if a Dual Enrollment type of thing is allowed there. Do the AP Stats and see if other schools like UC’s or CSU’s have special dual enrollment programs for normal kids or homeschoolers. Maybe work towards an AA degree so you can have it under your belt as you go for the bachelors.

There is no drawback to taking too many advanced classes. Congrats that you’ve accomplished so much so soon! :smiley:

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UCs have concurrent enrollment, but it seems to be some kind of “invitation only” thing. The issue, as you know, is taking classes without matriculating. One way is through the “Open University” that each CSU offers. I believe the concurrent enrollment for HS students at UCs is through the Extension.

You may (or may not) REALLY enjoy studying number theory at the 6-week long Ross Summer Mathematics Program. Getting some hands-on research in a university lab may be more useful at this point to help you define your interests (say a mechanical engineering lab); rather than pushing too much further into Math. Math does need to be kept up, though- you can get rusty if you are not keeping it up.

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http://extension.berkeley.edu/static/studentservices/concurrent/faq/#before_5 indicates that concurrent enrollment at Berkeley allows high school students. However, it is (for any student) only available on a space-available basis after matriculated students have enrolled.

Check other four year schools for their policies.

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Thank you all for your replies! I’ll try to respond to everyone in one post:

@KMizzle‌: Thanks for the suggestion; I’ll definitely do some research into AoPS
.

@ucbalumnus‌: Wow, thank you for the detailed list! At this point I’m looking more at math classes for fun, rather than for a specific major, but I’ll definitely keep that list in mind. I’m in the bay area–I believe UC Berkeley, CSU East Bay, and SJSU are fairly close (and CCs in that area). I’d rather not get more specific than that for privacy reasons.

I just saw your new message: I’ve looked a bit into the extension programs, and will do more research on them. I wasn’t able to verify if high school students could take them, though, so thanks for that link!

@Ynotgo‌: It does have a discrete math class, and I’ll definitely look into it after I take the first C++ class (the prereq). And I apologize if it sounded like I was dismissing AP Stats–I’m not, and am planning to take it. The UCs and CSUs are Berkeley, East Bay, and SJSU. The dual enrollment program you mentioned sounds great–do you know who I could talk to at those campuses for more information?

I hadn’t thought about an independent studies program, but I will now! :slight_smile: Thanks for the suggestion! I also hadn’t thought about AoPS earlier, and I’m not sure about a math circle, but I’ll look into both.

I haven’t done math competitions, and I’m sort of hesitant to start. I’m in FRC and it’s really time consuming (at least for me) at around 30hours a week in spring and 10h a week in fall. My mom is also not very fond of them or of competitive programs–I’ll try to find out why and see if she’ll be more open to them after we do some research together.

Thanks for the other suggestions: I’ll definitely look for Data Structures next year, and will look into USACO and Project Euler.

@kiddie and @TheDidactic‌: I’m hesitant to start college early, not only because of the negative connotation that I’ve heard about the GED, but also because I don’t feel ready. I’m particularly worried about how I’ll fit in if I’m younger, as well as scared about living somewhere else–I’d like to go to a college out of this area, possibly in another state, and honestly, even thinking about it is scary… :open_mouth:

Thank you for thinking I could though, @kiddie! @TheDidactic‌, thanks, I will definitely look into more dual enrollment programs!

@ItsJustSchool: I didn’t know about the Open University program, thank you and I’ll do some research on it! I will also look into the extension program. I will look into summer programs a bit, but I personally don’t feel comfortable going to such a long stay away camp (a bad experience at an Girl Scout camp that had an option to stay one night there that I never could get over…)

I believe that this summer I will be starting an internship at NASA, likely in mechanical engineering, but if it doesn’t I’ll look into possible research opportunities. Thank you for the suggestion!

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For frosh/soph level CS and engineering courses, you can also use http://www.assist.org to see which courses at CCs match up to courses at UCs and CSUs. For example, if you want to attend Berkeley for CS or EECS, taking CIS 61, 25, and 27 at Laney may be helpful (these cover CS 61A and 61B at Berkeley).

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AoPS is great, and the Math Circle at Berkeley is especially good. As far as math goes, you could google a current Harvard Senior from Danville, Evan O’Dorney- it is a real joy to watch You Tubes of his “who wants to be a mathematician” stuff. He also was home-schooled and did not go off to college until he was 18. He won the Intel, he has been a “Putnam Fellow” (top 5 scorer) each time he took the exam. He medaled in the International Math Olympiad each year of High School. He won the Scripps Spelling Bee in 8th grade.

I hope you re-think the Ross program (in Ohio). It would be great fun for you. It is not competition math- it is like intense math circle.

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I understand about the amount of time required for FRC in spring… Good luck with Recycle Rush.

The great thing about math circles is that you will have a chance to meet more kids with similar interests. I know that homeschoolers have plenty of social interaction, but it can still be difficult to find kids who are part of “your tribe” whether you are homeschooling or at a particular high school. Our math circle has been great for my son socially, and he is “only” in Calc BC as a sophomore.

It looks like there are several math circles in the Bay Area. https://www.mathcircles.org/Wiki_ExistingMathCirclePrograms_view

I agree with others that you should check with the Extension programs. Ours was standalone, but has been moved into our UC Extension program, though you wouldn’t know from any website. We don’t have a local CSU, so I don’t know about them. (Hmm, I had to Google why it isn’t Cal State Hayward anymore.) I’d say just send email to people at the Extension department. Someone will point you to the right person.

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I am completely unfamiliar with DE in CA. I can only share what we did for our son with 2 different universities in 2 different states. Neither allowed DE except under very limited conditions which did not fit his needs. We met with the admissions office who ended up having to confer with the registrar in order to get approval. He was able to get approval to take the classes he wanted. He graduated from high school with credit for 300 math and physics credits. It was a good experience for him.

Where you decide to attend college will determine whether or not your credits will be accepted. Ds did not run into any issues with schools like GT approving his credits. (he did have to submit course descriptions/syllabi to some of the schools to review.) The schools which don’t grant credit typically allow taking a placement test to determine placement. Stanford has an honors freshman math class which has students who have taken similar math sequences as you describe. (a close friend’s dd who was more advanced than our ds took that sequence. Definitely a match for accelerated math students.)

If DE will not work, you might look into Stanford’s Online High School: https://ohs.stanford.edu/divisions/university_mathematics.html

As far as AoPS, number theory and counting/probability are the classes you could investigate. I would recommend attending a Math Jam. http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/mathjams.php? They als have WOOT which might appeal (do you like competition math?)

I also highly recommend looking into summer programs. Math Camp and SSP are 2 that I would recommend looking into. Our son attended SSP and absolutely LOVED every minute of it.

HTH

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Stanford and Johns Hopkins both offer higher level math classes on-line. Not cheap but you can work at your own pace. D did one at Johns Hopkins that worked well for her in her senior year.

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MIT might also have some online courses for you as well.

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Like mentioned above, many UC campuses have open campus programs. Enrollment and transcripts may be handled by Extension, but you are enrolled in regular classes on campus. Here are UCSC and UCB’s programs:

http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/open-campus

http://extension.berkeley.edu/static/studentservices/concurrent/

Open university is also available at both SJSU and CSU East Bay. Santa Clara University has a “Young Scholars” program designed for high school students. Fees are comparable to the UC/CSU programs.

http://www.scu.edu/cas/math/youngscholars.cfm

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It is not surprising that many universities allow non-matriculated students to attend (paying tuition) in classes where there is otherwise-unused space available after matriculated students have enrolled.

For example, you can see which upper division math classes at Berkeley have space, so that they could possibly be options for a non-matriculated student:

http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=0&p_classif=U&p_deptname=–+Choose+a+Department+Name±-&p_presuf=–+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2fSuffix±-&y=0&p_dept=math

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I think you are fortunate to live so close to UCB. When my son entered grad school, a classmate was a 16 y.o., who had graduated UG from UCB. This young man could not drink at restaurants with his classmates, but did fit in. He had been homeschooled, then lived at home when attending UG.

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Thank you so much to everyone for their advice, suggestions, and links!!!

@ucbalumnus: Thanks for the link–I have heard of it before, but never considerd it could help me find community colleges with certain classes!
Just saw your other post: thank you for the catalog link! The classes look facinating, and I’m happy to see many of them still have space. :slight_smile:

@ItsJustSchool: I definitely will keep AoPS, the Math Circle, and Ross in mind as I look at other options. Thank you for all of the suggestions and for the youtube suggestion.

@Ynotgo: Thanks! Maybe I’ll see your son/daughter’s team at competition–I wish them luck! I will look into math circles more, and will definitely look into the extension program.

@Mom2aphysicsgeek: Thank you for sharing your experience! It’s great that your son was able to take higher classes at a college, and I hope to find one that will allow me to do so too. I’ll also do more research on SOHS, AoPS, Math Camp, and SSP. I’m leaning against summer programs and competition math for various reasons, but I’ll certainly not rule them out completely.

@N’s Mom and @TheDidactic: I’ll look more into all of these programs, thanks for the suggestion!

@meow15: Thank you for the links–they’re what I’ve been looking for, and extremely helpful! I will definitely be looking into them more. :slight_smile:

@bookwork: Thanks for the note. I likely won’t graduate early (just don’t feel comfortable with it), but my mom is encouraging it and I’ll reconsider it next year in case I change my mind.

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As to whether to graduate early or not, it does depend on whether you feel that there is more high school level material for you to learn (i.e. will you have completed the 12th grade or higher level in all of the major high school subjects?), and if you feel that you are ready to move on to college (including non-academically, particularly if you attend a school that would require you to move there, as opposed to commuting from your parents’ house).