Advice on Ivy League Baseball Recruiting

Athletic Recruits
41

I am not a big fan of dual degrees in general. Very few college freshmen have a clear idea of what they want to major in. Even those that think they do often find that they will change their minds before they finish. Most dual degree programs have a high number of required courses in order to squeeze, in this case, 6 years of course work into 5. This limits your options in electives. If you play ball, especially D1, social time and sleep will definitely suffer, even more. College is a great time to meet people, experience new things and grow personally. Donā€™t make it a grind.

Top MBA programs (Wharton, Stanford, Harvard) rarely admit students straight out of undergrad. The average age of entering first years at HBS is 27. Here is a link to the HBS profile page so that you can see the backgrounds of these students. http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/class-profile/Pages/default.aspx Here is the profile page for Dartmouthā€™s Tuck School. http://www.tuck.dartmouth.edu/admissions/class-profile. 100% of the Tuck students reported had prior industry experience! For both HBS and Tuck, note how many non-business majors make up the class.

As I have previously posted, I donā€™t think a business degree is the only or even best way to get into business, especially Wall Street, venture capital or private equity. With all due respect to Wash U in St Louis, an Econ or STEM major from a top LAC, Ivy or other elite school (including Wash U itself), will have as good of, if not better, chance of snagging a Wall Street or VC/private equity job as the Wash U business undergrad, grades, recā€™s, etcā€¦ being equal. For this reason, I would not pre-narrow your pursuit of schools to ones with business majors. Iā€™d choose the school you feel most comfortable in, in terms of academics, baseball and the intangible vibes. You will find the right major.

If you were my kid and knew you had an interest in business/law, I would suggest selecting the major that you will enjoy the most, even something like Art History, as long as you have solid electives in Econ, Math, Stats and other quantitative type classes. But to answer your question if you are dead set on a business major, and assuming the major requirement will include a heavy dose of quantitative study like math and stats, Iā€™d take courses that require critical reading, research and writing. It doesnā€™t matter if the classes are in History, Poli Sci, English, Literature, Philosophy etcā€¦ It is not about the subject, but how you train your mind to approach, analyze and write about issues.

42

@BKSquared wow. This is probably the most helpful information Iā€™ve received during my college search. You have helped me understand my college experience much more than I had before, especially when it comes to time management. Here is my college list right now:



Harvard

Yale

Columbia

Dartmouth

Cornell

Penn

Boston College

Georgetown

Washington U in St. Louis

Johns Hopkins

Fordham

UChicago



As of now, I have the opportunity to play baseball at two of those schools. I will know about the others by the end of the summer. Almost all of them offer so many different majors that it might take me in a different direction than I originally expected. Johns Hopkins is more science focused but all of the others offer many different programs and opportunities. I think the main thing that interests me of all of these schools is this program:

https://www.fordham.edu/info/24498/global_business_honors_program



It is a business program but also includes a unique college experience. I will be able to travel the world and learn, as well as meet new people and build close bonds with like minded students. These are things that you mentioned that I think this program offers. If I can play baseball here then this is probably one of my top options.



Despite this, I will keep my options open. I will think about all of the things you said and explore different parts of my target schools than I have been doing previously. Time to take a step back and breathe! Itā€™s all a bit overwhelming, I think thatā€™s why the idea of knowing my major is going to be business appeals to me. The structure of it seems more predictable but Iā€™m starting to realize that I have some time to figure things out and I should go where life takes me. Thank you for all your help.

43

All great schools. Have you talked with Coach DiToma about the viability of doing the honors program with all of that time abroad and play ball? D1 programs are less flexible when it comes to conflicts between the sport and academics. Anyway, I am sure you will figure it out. No wrong choices here. Good luck and best wishes.

44

If law and business interest you, you can do a double major (concentration) in Wharton at Penn. I have been aware of a young man in Wharton double majoring in finance and legal studies all while playing baseball for Penn. If the social component is important to you can also pledge a fraternity while doing these other things. Not easy but it has been done. That said BKsquared is providing you excellent advice, it really depends on your goals and your willingness to do the work, while playing ball. D1 baseball is a grind in and of itself, even in the fall semester. The spring semester can really kick your butt if youā€™re not well prepared for it. Major time commitment. However, wise employers know pretty well what type of person they are getting if you can pull elite school grades while playing a sport. If you are also doing other things like clubs or active Greek life your resume will be pretty compelling. D3 baseball is slightly less of a commitment, but not as much less as you might think.

45

@BKSquared I have set up a call with coach DiToma tomorrow and I will ask about that. The D3 schools Iā€™ve spoken to have made it clear that they know that their students are there for school and have those commitments as well. Iā€™m sure it is different for D1 schools although I bet the ivies understand more. I will talk to the Ivy coaches about it as well

46

@nhparent9 that might be the course of action I take if I end up at one of the top schools. The social part is less important for me because baseball is my social life. Many times the people I hang out with are guys from the baseball team, and Iā€™m sure there might not be a bunch of time for parties (not to say itā€™s not going to happen). Iā€™ll decide if a fraternity is right for me when I get to college but it all depends on my major and the rigor of the baseball schedule. I know if I put my mind to it I can do it, as long as Iā€™m motivated. Like BKsquared said, I donā€™t want to make college a grind, but I will work hard. Maybe I can have some fun along the way

47

Ivies will be more understandable of the D1ā€™s. They also donā€™t have any scholarship leverage since FA is 100% need based. They do however have a fall season, which makes the commitment almost year round. I also canā€™t help but think that players who miss the least practices and possibly games have an advantage in the depth chart rankings (which is also true of D3), athletic ability being roughly equal. A good quote to keep in mind is one that Coach Stupor and Frawley constantly make to potential recruits, ā€œYale doesnā€™t look for smart kids who play baseball, we look for baseball players who are smart.ā€ Coach Stark more or less has said the same thing to us. To me, that is a subtle indicator of their priorities.

You had asked a question about my son in an early post as to why he would mull a walk-on position. It was a guaranteed spot for the fall season (like you, he is younger and has not fully matured physically, so I think the coaches want to see how he fills out). His thinking is that he will be the bottom man to begin with since he was not a recruit, and he wants to have the full Yale experience, and he is concerned about getting a good academic start in the fall. You and he are alike in many ways, although it sounds like you are a little more passionate and probably a better ball player. The responses on this thread were easy to write as they are almost a replay of the conversations I have had with my son. My son has always viewed baseball as something he enjoys and is reasonably good at, and also as a tool to get him positioned favorably for the college application process. It always has been a means to a different end. During the course of this summer and fall, you will have many opportunities and choices. I think you will be mature and thoughtful enough to make the choices that best suit you long term.

48

@BKSquared Yes it makes sense that the more you commit to the team, the better chance you will have to play. As for the quote from the Yale coaching staff, I canā€™t say Iā€™m surprised, just a little disappointed. I donā€™t want baseball to hinder my academic goals but I also love the game enough where I will do what it takes to play. Baseball has always been a great outlet for me; I have three siblings with physical disabilities and, needless to say, it gets a bit rough sometimes. Itā€™s hard not to get down but baseball has always helped me stay positive and forget all of the bad stuff in the world. Iā€™m used to playing 7 days a week, so I donā€™t think the time commitment would be something I couldnā€™t handle, but maybe with a college workload it would take a bit of adjusting.







As for your son, it does sound like we are basically in the same situation. I have always told my dad I want the full college experience (whatever that means will be dictated by where I go I believe). But basically I donā€™t want my college life to be dictated by just one thing; I want to balance school, sports, and a social life in much the same way I do now. If you could, I would love to know what your son decides. If he really enjoys baseball I think the grind of the season will be worth it. But Iā€™ve come to notice that kids who donā€™t truly love it (just like kids who donā€™t love learning in school) arenā€™t going to find the same worth in the sport as I do. Like you said though, the coaches have no leverage due to no athletic scholarships being given, so if he feels that baseball is detracting from his experience, he could simply stop playing. I know he probably doesnā€™t want to be a ā€œquitterā€, but if thatā€™s what is best for him then he should do it. Iā€™m sure youā€™ve talked to him about it extensively and at the end of the day itā€™s his choice. I know if Yale was my dream school Iā€™d try to play baseball there too, but if it wasnā€™t working out, then Iā€™d focus on academics 100%. My dad and I have always said if I get into HYP then all bets are off. Iā€™m going there regardless of baseball because the academic opportunities are unparalleled to nearly anything else in the world.

49

I donā€™t think there is a clear ā€œthis isnā€™t working for me, Iā€™m going to quitā€ point in the middle of the season. My daughterā€™s first year I could see that she was exhausted toward the end of the season. The coach had set up a rather rough schedule with 3 weekend bus trips in a row (long trips), her school has finals the first week of May so right when the season is ending, each game is longer in college than high school, with two 30 minute periods instead of 25 minutes, it was a new team with little experience, so the few good players were running all over the field for the entire game. Exhausted. But they played on. Players donā€™t tend to quit during the season.

50

Playing D1 sports is a full time job, including in the Ivy. Being anything less than fully committed is not a recipe for success. You set your classes and your schedule based on your athletic commitment. There can be some special exception latitude here and there on occasion, but playing ball is a primary responsibility if you are going to stay on the team. Then you add school (meaning study time) around that. If you can pull off some sort of social life outside of baseball, then good for you. The old adage is there are three components - athletics, class, and social life - you pick two. Off season you may be able to pull all three reasonably effectively, as long as you have excellent discipline. In season you choose baseball and class. There isnā€™t much opportunity for anything else. BKā€™s quote from Stupor at Yale is pretty common during the recruiting process. I guess Iā€™d leave you with this thought - professional baseball coaches are paid to win games and get their kids graduated on time. Thatā€™s it. They are looking for tools that can advance those two goals. Players are those tools. If you are a kid that can commit and advance those goals, youā€™ll be a success. If not - then not.

51

@twoinanddone I get that itā€™s a grind. Itā€™s a huge adjustment and maybe I was just naive when thinking that quitting would even be an option. It does seem worth it to me though, as Iā€™m sure future employers will recognize your time commitment to sports while keeping good grades. But itā€™s definitely something you have to love. If itā€™s anything less than that then Iā€™m not sure Iā€™d play college sports.

52

@nhparent9 looks like Iā€™ll be choosing school and sports! I get that itā€™s a gigantic commitment, especially because the sport isnā€™t just restricted to the spring season. Thereā€™s workouts, offseason practices, and skills training too. I think I know what to expect, but like anything, it will be an adjustment. Iā€™m ready for it. I guess I just didnā€™t make the connection that theyā€™re professional coaches. I mean I knew they were paid (a lot by the way) but because the players are amateurs it never really clicked in my mind. It makes sense though, theyā€™re paid to win and theyā€™ll do what it takes to do that.

53

@grant1509,

It sounds like you are on the right track and will make the right decision when the time comes. The only thing I could add to the many fine comments set forth above is that a PG rating of 7 is not all that high. I have never seen one lower than 6. I also believe that if you do more than one PG event, PG may increase your score but are unlikely to decrease it ā€“ no proof of that, just my sense. Itā€™s been a few years since I was fluent in ā€œPG speak,ā€ but I believe that their description of what the ratings mean (as opposed to the ratings themselves) is inflated. Maybe @nhparent9, @57special or BKSquared have some thoughts on that.

54

I agree that the student athlete has to prioritize school, then the team, but I do not agree that the third component of social is a distant third. One advantage my daughter has as an athlete is that she doesnā€™t have to work during the school year so she has time for her sorority, her boyfriend, her other friends. She belongs to a few professional clubs, but was never really interested in student government or social activities that require a lot of poster making or setting up games. She does community service through her team or sorority. Her time is very structured, but she has time to do the things she likes to do like cook (bake), work out (even with the lifting and team work outs, she still likes to run), go to the movies, watch football on Sundays in the fall, go to the beach. Her coach has a lot of rules with limit partying with alcohol.

What she doesnā€™t do is waste time. She has two or three TV shows that she follows and will record and watch when she has time. She knows when to say no, sheā€™s not going out for pizza because she has to sleep. Her entire freshman year I think she was in bed by 9:30 most nights because she had to get up to lift at 5:00. Schedule, schedule, schedule.

55

@gointhruaphase, never went the PG route. The feedback we got from Headfirst and Stanford (formal in the case of Stanford that gave us a camp eval and an eval from the coach of his camp team - a college coach, and informal from conversations with other college coaches willing to talk to you beyond pleasantries) I found honest and a good gauge of prospects. The OP will find out exactly where he stands by the end of summer directly from the coaches of schools he is interested in or is interested in him.

@twoinanddone, daughter is having the same experience at her school. It is D3, but she is STEM. This has forced her to be Ms Time Management in order to fit in school, sport, social life and sleep, which is a great skill to develop. Not sure about how much social life and sleep she would have to sacrifice at a D1 program. I also concur that if you can pull off decent grades and play an intercollegiate sport for 4 years, employers will view that as a plus.

56

I think the biggest difference in D1 and the others is the schedule. D1 teams travel a lot, and far. Thatā€™s a killer on class time and sleep. My daughter is in D2 and the first year, which was the first year for the team and the coach, they had 3 out of town weekends in a row, all about 10 hours (one way) bus trips, all in April when they were coming up on finals. The coach learned this was too hard and the second year was one plane trip (Easter weekend). Third year (and scheduled 4th year) is one weekend bus trip at the beginning of the season and all other games are home or within a short day trip.

It is so much easier when the travel is cut down. They have their own training rooms, their own beds to sleep in, not so much junk food on the bus. If my daughter missed any classes last year, it was one Friday.

57

@gointhruaphase I understand a 7 may not be too high, but I will say this: I have improved a lot since that showcase. I also know a kid who got an 8 who is now playing behind me on my high school team. So I would agree with @BKSquared in that the best assessments I received have been from coaches themselves. They are honest because they donā€™t have a financial benefit to gain from lying to you or ā€œscoringā€ you. I have been told by coaches that if I put on mass I will be a legitimate D1 scholarship prospect. For now, I consider myself a fringe D1 with upside (as Iā€™ve had scouts and coaches tell me basically that exact thing)

58

@twoinanddone it truly does sound like a grind. Iā€™m sure that the longer coaches have been there the more they realize how to schedule and help their athletes out as much as possible. I know it is already hard enough to make up three tests when I miss a Friday for a tournament, I canā€™t imagine what it will be like in college. But I will adapt; I know that. If I canā€™t then baseball at the collegiate level is not right for me

59

@twoinanddone also, I would like to mention that I haven never found too much joy in partying. I think itā€™s because I am already learning to prioritize and many times Iā€™ve had to choose sleep over partying due to early practices or school or any of the other things I do. Itā€™s definitely a way to make you plan like you said, but Iā€™ve found that it has made me a better person. It has forced me to make the best decision rather than the one that gives me instant gratification. I am very lucky that I am able to see the big picture unlike many of my peers. Some kids just donā€™t understand.

60

@grant1509 You will do well wherever you land. Congrats. Thank your parents or your roll model/s. Youā€™re an articulate, driven, talented young man.