Not sure where to post this on the Theatre Drama forum (not musical theatre), so here goes.
If my son is not going into a STEM related field, is it necessary for him to take as many AP classes as are offered at his school? While academically he can handle the AP course load, his love and passion is in Theatre and wants to pursue a degree in the field of Theatre Performance. Should he just focus his efforts on theatre related enrichment programs outside of his regular theatre classes/performances? I am torn because he can do well in AP classes, but would rather spend his time auditioning and learning lines. His dream school would be NYU Tisch.
He has taken pre AP classes in Geometry, English, Bio,World Geo, AP World History, and Honors Spanish I, II, & III… But unfortunately due to his commitment to theatre and being in every production, he only received B’s in those classes. And life was very stressful as he is also on the Varsity Swim team as a Sophomore. His day is a long one starting at 6:00 am for swim practice and ending at 6:00 pm with theatre practice. He attends an extremely competitive high school where receiving B’s will get you a low class ranking. Only top 30% with a 3.6 GPA. This year we let him take regular on level Algebra II and Chemistry because he didn’t have time nor did he want to dedicate the extra time to keep up with the pre AP course work. It was a struggle as he started out in the pre AP classes and then dropped down to regular on level. As a result he has very high A’s in the on level classes (99 & 96 average), but obviously he could have handled the pre AP versions of those courses if he had wanted to. He thinks his class ranking will go up by taking the on level classes and he doesn’t have to study for those classes. Next year (junior yr) he wants to take AP English, College Dual Credit for American History, on level Pre Cal, and on level Physics in addition to 2 Theatre classes and Varsity Swim. He seems to think his audition will be the most important criteria to gaining admission to a Theatre Arts program at a prestigious college. It’s very frustrating as a parent to see him taking courses that are below what he could handle yet do we deny his love for theatre and force the issue thus making life miserable for all? Advice please.
I am the mother of a Jr. soon to be entering his Sr. year. I’ve been list building with my son a long time. He has 1 AP, 4 honors classes, and is cast in every production (20-25 hrs a week). We knew he’d want to go to school for theater, so I didn’t worry so much about standardized tests (S hates them!) or overloading on AP. It took me way too long before I ran the net price calculators on the schools on our list, and figured the loan payments in combination with kid 2 (one year behind son) While I knew there were 2 hurdles, getting in, and paying for it, the paying for it part is really sinking in. I went to our school’s college counselor. I learned the schools we had listed, where I had researched the stats and we looked good with maybe some merit money, wasn’t a valid approach, because I needed to look at our competitive school stats of who got in (using Naviance). Our school is held to a higher standard. Now we’re really focused on financial safeties as well as talent safeties. So, what I took away from this, is that in order for school to be in financial reach with merit $, we should have had more rigor and spent more time trying to convince S to study for SAT. The schools that we love that are all about talent tend to be not as generous with financial aid. I have no doubt my son will get into a few places he 'll be excited about, but I am concerned about our finances. In the end, I don’t think I would have done anything differently as I believe mental health is important (not worth the misery?), I would have approached list building a different way. Also, I should have considered our age and finances much sooner. The college list just needs to be built considering the whole person, and the family finances (big picture - retirement, other kids)
If your son is interested in schools like NYU - which evaluate academics and talent separately, rigor of classes matters. Not that he needs to take all APs, but if he isn’t taking any, and the school offers them, that could hurt his chances. Again, this advice schools like NYU, Michigan, Boston, and others that are academically competitive, and evaluate academics separately.
I’ve been having the same discussions in my household. It looks like 3 APs for my D next year. She has schools on her list where rigor will be important. The audition is certainly the most important factor in most auditions (although some schools weight academics and audition 50/50) but grades and test scores make a difference when it comes to merit money. Frankly, I am concerned about the workload of 3 APs (as well as other honors/regular classes and school shows) given the demands of senior year. It is harder for them to catch up when they miss school for college auditions. If they attend Unifieds in Chicago, it is not unrealistic to expect them to miss at least 3 class days.
My D took 4 APs senior year- and was in 6 shows that year. The scheduling component for auditions was a challenge for sure. Doing the bulk of auditions at Chicago unifieds - she only missed 2 days of school. (She did one fall audition on her school’s conference break) This is an area where the list of schools was important, she couldn’t have done 15-20 auditions. She missed 1 day for a college visit after acceptances.
In the end, the AP classes have been really helpful to D. They have really allowed her to pursue interests at her college (NYU as it happens).
Can he drop swimming?
The above curriculum would be okay for any school.
@collegeadmiss - FYI- the dual enrollment credit for US history may not work outside your state (idk what state you are in).
All of the kids I know that have gone, are going and will be going this year to Tisch have taken AP classes, though not necessarily overloaded with them. Tisch is an academic acceptance first and then a performance acceptance.
My son will be pursuing a BFA in theater tech. He didn’t really pursue a rigorous schedule in HS and only took 3 AP’s. For me, since he was going to a SUNY, the purpose of AP’s was not to make his application look better but to get rid of gen eds. He will be getting credit for Psych and is waiting to hear about APES and US Govt.
It is also true that many (most?) BFA Acting programs require 4 years of training no matter how many credits your S/D has earned. Some programs also have required gen eds (not fulfilled by APs or dual enrollment courses). Loads of AP/college/dual enrollment courses may give a BFA student flexibility in pursuing a minor or other coursework which may interest them but the design of the program won’t always allow them to finish school early.
@artskids is entirely correct about many schools requiring you to do 4 years no matter what- but NYU only requires 3 years of studio training (the BFA classes) to graduate. It is a rather unique curriculum, allowing much greater flexibility than many other BFAs - you can study in various studios, take academic semesters to focus on an outside major/minor, or graduate early and jump into the “real” world. These opportunities are one of my favorite elements of NYU. But, other places do it differently - and anyone applying/auditioning for BFA programs needs to check how things work at EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL on your list- because there are variables everywhere
As an AP teacher- I can tell you that when parents “force” their kids into AP classes- things don’t go well. There’s a lot of self motivation required to keep up with work levels etc. But not having rigor can also be a big minus when it comes to applications for academically competitive schools. Perhaps it’s time to start thinking about the potential list of colleges where the kid would like to apply- and think about the path from there. Is NYU an outlier? Meaning others are not academically selective, or only consider the audition (which is true at many fine BFA schools)? If so, then do what you want. But- if your son is interested in schools where grades matter (NYU, Boston, Emerson, Syracuse, Michigan and Penn State are all examples where there is a separate academic threshold) then you may want to adjust plans accordingly.
I agree with basing it on one’s college list. There are obviously cases in which rigor matters, but I’ve also read instances here in which parents wish their child had taken it easier senior year, not only because of college auditions, but because it turned out to be a more stressful year than they thought (which is doesn’t have to be academically in order to succeed in college), a higher GPA would’ve likely resulted in more scholarship money, or the AP classes or dual enrollment classes didn’t matter much for admissions or scholarships in their case.
I’d also base it on the affect the choice could have on your child senior year. If he is already saying it will be too much and is already stressing over it, I’d listen to that. I also would try not to try to think that he is working at a level below what he can handle; I’d prefer to view it as following his own path and doing what he needs to do to preserve a love of learning, to avoid burnout (which can carry over into the college years), to reach his goals, and to stay healthy mentally and physically. That, to me, is smart. Plus, he’s a senior; if you already think taking these courses will make you all miserable, think about this being his last year at home with you and what you’d prefer for that to look like in regards to your relationship. (Sorry if that gives you a jolt. 
) It doesn’t sound like he’s slacking off at all or planning on it, which would be a different story entirely. He’s just making a choice, and then still working hard.
@collegeadmiss, if this were my child, I’d let him make the decision after he is well-informed (which it does sound like he’s already given this a lot of thought). It’s his course of action, he’s growing into adulthood, and he can own the decision.
He sounds like he has a lot on his plate, and I would think that even the programs that consider academics would factor that. Plus, his act/sat score will be a factor; if that is strong, I’d view that as another reason to let this go.
@collegeadmiss - The idea of whether or not the APs will matter, in the end, comes down to what schools are on the list. If your son is making a hard push at NYU, I would argue that they DO matter, NYU takes rigor into account- and GPA isn’t going to bring big scholarship $$ there. BUT- NYU is only one school, and while it is many kid’s “dream school” (across many majors - it’s is always on that type of list) that doesn’t mean you should focus your kid’s ENTIRE senior year towards what they are looking for.
Also, if your kid isn’t a super fan of academics - fair warning, NYU does more of that than some BFAs- and the academics are intense. Something to look into before you decide to go all in with that one school. D knows more than 1 person who has left NYU because though they LOVE the training, they didn’t like the academic workload
Now I’m going to show my crazy side: “affect” should’ve been “effect,” which I typed, but spellcheck must’ve ever so kindly changed for me (in the sentence: “I’d also base it on the affect the choice could have on your child senior year”).
See? Crazy that I couldn’t let it go after I spotted it! :))
My two cents is that the SAT or ACT helps get merit money as well as GPA and class rank. Other than that, as long as students take rigorous courses, I haven’t seen AP help over other options (honors, concurrent enrollment, etc). In fact, we know many kids who ended up with higher GPA and class rank as they took “regular” classes but took them as honors and didn’t take AP. They got better grades, had a high GPA and ended up at very good schools (NYU is one of them).
I think AP can be great - but don’t feel kids should force themselves to take them. My oldest did take many, but I now tell parents it isn’t necessary as many of my daughters friends did fine college wise without any APs at all. I wish someone had told me or I had believed them that APs are not the only path. Would have saved stress - (my daughter did fine in them and passed all the tests, but I just thought it was too much!).
As for senior year, my daughter did not take AP then (she did take APs all other three years though). She took a pretty light load senior year and 2 concurrent enrollment classes which transferred as college credits. She had a much nicer and more relaxed senior year which was great given the stress of auditions. I highly recommend that route and also studying for ACT/SAT. Getting that score up helps with merit money. Good luck.
I figured you’d appreciate that, @artskids! :))
@bfahopeful - the caveat I always give with dual enrollment is that those credits “may” not transfer over long distances… I know someone who did DE senior year and was accepted to NYU- none of their senior year credits would count (which was instrumental in them deciding eventually on a school that WOULD accept the credits). I have no idea how far the OP is from NYU. Given that BFA kids often cast a wide net of distance- AP is a more “national” system. It is something I feel the school where I teach is NOT transparent about- and a pet peeve.
I would also point out from your example above that there is a difference between taking honors vs AP (which might not cause an issue with rigor) and regular vs AP - esp if there are honors courses available. Also, you don’t need to take AP in ALL subjects to be seen as taking the “rigorous” curriculum.
I’m just curious, @toowonderful. Do you know whether those credits were taken on a university/college campus (not community college) with college students (so not at the high school taught by a college prof)? Also, do you know if the credits were in addition to high school requirements instead of fulfilling them? I’ve heard those things must be in place to have the highest chance of transferring. My D’s dual enrollment (on a university campus with college students; in addition to high school requirements) would’ve transferred everywhere she got accepted artistically (except maybe NYU, but we didn’t look into that since she got off the waitlist in mid-summer and had decided on her school by then–and we didn’t look into the other colleges on her list, which “just” accepted her academically), but I know that’s not always the case.
I’ve also heard about colleges (from them or second hand) that do not accept AP credits for some/many courses no matter what score, so I guess a big question to ask is what main purpose(s) do dual enrollment and AP courses serve for your student? The challenge, hopefully strong letters of recommendation, the experience, interest, demonstrate rigor/ability/love of learning, fulfill college requirements? For us, if the credits transfer for our kids, it is a bonus; they took/take them for the other reasons. There’s obviously nothing at all wrong with a main goal being the transfer of credits; I know many people who have that goal. I’m just rambling a bit now…
@myloves My daughter’s dual enrollment were from a large state university. Her high school actually encourages those over AP as more colleges accept them. However I do understand that some DE classes aren’t accepted everywhere if from a CC.
And I agree @toowonderful that honors classes are a good bet.
A number of my D’s friends at SUNY Purchase attended high schools in NY where they earned dual credit and finished HS with an associate degree. Her roommate (2nd year at SUNY) is a rising senior and plans to go straight to graduate school. She and my D will ultimately finish at the same time. It’s an incredibly beneficial and cost-saving way to do college - just not generally in the cards for BFA students.