<p>I would like to hear the pros and cons of taking high school level math courses in middle school. Our middle school lets 8th grade children take high school math courses and buses the kids to high school for those math courses. Would those courses appear in the high school transcript? Can you please advise me if it is a good or bad idea?</p>
<p>Thanks,
hypermom</p>
<p>Well, as a high school student who took high school courses in middle school, it is a good thing because it help free up time your jr. and senior year of high school. Also, the classes I took in middle school did appear on my transcript. Although I didnt know what transcript, rank or the word that starts with a V that I cant spell but you know what it is.</p>
<p>How much does your child love math and dive into it without prodding from anyone else, for fun? If the child loves math and is competent at it, and is not extremely immature (since they'd be with HS students at an early age), it can often work well.</p>
<p>In my son's case, the HS courses he took in MS did not appear on his transcript, but the courses that did appear had pre-requisites that made it clear he'd taken accelerated math courses very early. One thing to consider before moving into an accelerated math track is how the school (or the student's family) will provide for the upper end of advanced math study, when the student is a junior or senior. In my son's case, there was one other student who also finished his first year of AP Calc in 8th grade, and their school actually created math courses on-site for these highly-advanced students, but that will not happen in most schools. Many advanced math students need to plan on community college or university math courses their last couple years in HS, or arrange to get credit for independent math study. I'm sure a few other posters will chime in with websites and organizations such a student can get involved in.</p>
<p>In my son's case, it was an excellent experience, but it did require some forethought and planning with the school administrators.</p>
<p>If your middle school and high school offer this option and your child is willing to use it (i.e., will not feel pressured), TAKE IT! </p>
<p>Some teachers will try to dissuade students from doing so by raising the specter of their running out of math classes. But being unchallenged and bored is a greater danger than running out of classes.</p>
<p>My S's k-8 school allowed students to work above grade level; 7th and 8th graders who were able to o high-school level work had a couple of options: work on above-grade level math on their own in their regular class or go to the high school for math. Several of his high school peers took AP-Calculus in 10th or 11th grade as a result of this option (some worked in-class, others went to the high school). Since Calculus is the last math class offered at most high schools, these advanced students went on to take Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra at the Harvard Extension School which allows high schoolers to take courses. Two years ago, when I talked to the MV Calc instructor, there were 53 high schoolers in a class of 83 students, from our and other surrounding communities. In fact, the Extension School is launching an initiative to better address the needs of the increasing number of high schoolers who take courses there.
In other communities, students who have exhausted the math offerings of their high school may take college courses at their local university or community college; if this is not practical, they may take online college math classes (EPGY, from Stanford, is the best known of such programs).</p>
<p>Personally, I do not see any downside to accelerating in math provided that the student is not being pressured to achieve beyond his or her capabilities and interest.</p>
<p>My D left middle school with three high school credits ... French, Algebra and Science. Although none are reflected in her g.p.a., she gets class credits for taking them. She's very happy as it has allowed her to take some electives in high school that she otherwise wouldn't have been able to fit into her schedule. She's a senior now, and though she doesn't have math or science this year, she still will have four years of each on her transcript. If your child is prepared to do the work, I see no reason not to encourage your child to do so.</p>
<p>A couple of additional comments. My S also took AP-Calc and AP-Physics as an 8th grader. These courses do not appear anywhere on his transcript, but this AP scores do appear on his AP score report.</p>
<p>My S's high school required 3 years of math and three years of lab science for graduation, regardless of level. So this was an argument for working out a schedule that was flexible enough for him to take college classes, either in the evening (at the Extension School) for undergraduate credit or in daytime, as an auditor. His grades in the college courses were converted to Pass. Other schools have different ways of dealing with grades (ours does not weight) and recording classes on a transcript (courses taken in k-8 do not count or appear, no matter what the level). </p>
<p>I agree that if a student is to be accelerated, a great deal of foreplanning is required, involving the principals of both schools, and the teachers. In my S's case, he learned calculus on his own in class but went to the high school for AP-Physics. This necessitated a reshuffling of his humanities/social studies classes and it forced him to forgo one hour of Spanish a week, much to the dismay of his teacher (but he still placed into Spanish 3 in 9th grade). My S's teachers were very willing to make this re-arrangement to his schedule. It worked because the class had two groups in the humanities/social studies that met at different times on different days. It was only mildly unsettling for my S to be in two different groups.</p>
<p>As Oram commented, being accelerated frees up time in high school. A student may opt to graduate early, take up all sorts of electives, do independent study.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
My S also took AP-Calc and AP-Physics as an 8th grader. These courses do not appear anywhere on his transcript, but this AP scores do appear on his AP score report.
[/QUOTE]
What as an 8th grader?^^^</p>
<p>Oiram:</p>
<p>Yup. He was told early by the 7th grade science teacher that the 8th grade science curriculum was not going to be challenging for him, so he took Fast-Paced High School Physics at CTY during the summer and went to the high school for AP-Physics. I should say the CTY course was excellent. He actually was a bit ahead of the regular students insofar as he had already started on AP-Calculus in 7th grade.
Thinking back, it was a very pressure-free experience. He was not worried about grades or how the classes he was taking would look to college adcoms. He knew that, if he was in over his head, he could always move a notch below. He had a great year.</p>
<p>Middle school kids taking high school courses is a normal thing at my kids' high school. Lots of kids do it. (No busing though, as it is a 7th through 12th grade school). It is the best way to keep kids on the right track for math.</p>
<p>THANKYOU all for your great advice in a SHORT span of time!
hypermom</p>
<p>
[quote]
Our middle school lets 8th grade children take high school math courses and buses the kids to high school for those math courses.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>College admissions officers always advise would-be applicants that they should take challenging courses appropriate to the applicants' local context. If other kids in town are doing what you say, so many that there is a regular bus running to the high school, GO FOR IT. To do less is to shirk an opportunity for academic challenge. </p>
<p>In my town there is a program, almost thirty years old now, in which middle schoolers can test to take an accelerated high-school-level course taught at our state university, and high schoolers can test to take calculus and beyond in the same program. We have to arrange our own transportation, but people from all over the metropolitan area are willing to do that, because it is a thorough and well reputed program. My son starts university honors calculus I at "eighth-grade" age (he is homeschooled otherwise) in five days. When I have visited regional information sessions put on by various colleges in my town, that program is always mentioned, because the most competitive college applicants from my town have come out of that program for more than two decades now. </p>
<p>I just went to my 30th high school reunion last week. It was great to see some old classmates I have been missing all these years. It was not at all great to be reminded how resolutely MEDIOCRE my high school was. Your child will be a lot happier looking back on middle school years of taking on and meeting academic challenges than looking back on taking the easy way. It's too bad my town's accelerated math program didn't exist when I was a kid, but better late than never. </p>
<p>Best wishes for your child's studies. Challenging opportunities are more enjoyable and beneficial than going with the common flow.</p>
<p>I took high school courses in my middle school year (started taking the HS courses in 7th grade). The courses all showed up on my transcript and it was computed into my GPA. If I had not taken the HS courses in middle school, I know my rank would not be as high as it is. If your son is mature enough and intellectually ready (in an academic sense) than I think he should take the course, but he should know that he willl be getting much more homework and the tests would count for more. Different schools work on different procedures, so you will have to ask the counselor whether it would be counted on his HS transcript. Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>Taking the math courses in middle school is excellent for students who are very strong in math and may be headed for careers in math or the sciences.</p>
<p>S took the courses starting in 7th grade, and those were his top grades because that's where his best talents are. If we had not let him take those classes, when he went to college, if he decided to major in math/sci, he would have been far behind students who had taken 7 years of h.s. math, which seems to be the norm for top students who are premed and in engineering.</p>
<p>I don't, though, think that starting math in h.s. is a good idea for students who may be very smart, but whose natural talents lie in other areas. It probably would just be discouraging to them, and they may be better off using their time to develop areas that are their natural talents such as writing, foreign languages, etc. </p>
<p>There also are some students who may be very talented in math/science, but simply aren't developmentally ready to excell in algebra and geometry while in middle school. Such students may struggle and get discouraged when taking those subjects in middle school, but if allowed to wait until they are in h.s., they may excel in those areas. S's middle school algebra teacher said that he'd seen students do that who ended up being able to major and do well in the sciences.</p>
<p>Like Marite's son, mine took AP (BC) calc in 8th grade (he began taking high school courses in 4th grade). Our school provided him with a tutor when he was young, and then bused him to the high school during middle school. All his grades and regents exams were on his high school transcript, as well as his AP scores. We were very careful to make sure he was challenged but never pressured...he thrived and was never bored. We were extremely fortunate that our public high school could meet his needs, and once he finished their courses, we took full responsibility for finding college level math instruction.</p>
<p>My S took Algebra 2 in 8th grade because he was a "math kid" back then. He morphed into a humanities kid in 10th grade and finished with math for good then. Not having math in 11 and 12 grades allowed him to load up on community college classes and high school electives that were interesting to him. Worked out just fine.</p>
<p>I think you are lucky to have this opportunity. Our school district was not soobliging back when S in middle school, but they have changed. My S studied on his own in 8th grade, with books provided by math teacher. Later on, he had to be driven almost an hour to take CC class. By 10th grade, he could attend local CC.
If your S is emotionally ready to interact with HS kids,k then by all means go for the opportunity. Being bored is discouraging</p>
<p>Hypermom,
My S took 9th grade math as a 6th grader. Since the high school started earlier in the morning than the middle school, it worked out logistically. We were responsible for bringing him to the high school, and they bused him and another student back to middle school in time for 2nd period to begin. They permitted him to take this course with dire warnings from the guidance counselor as to how much dedication and commitment this would take. He got an A+ all 4 quarters and a 100 on the NY State Regents exam, without much effort at all. Eventually, we moved him to an independent high school which had a math teacher who taught a college level number theory course when AP Calc BC had been conquered. If you feel that your child will be able to handle the academics and can deal being with the older kids, go for it!</p>
<p>Our junior highs offer HS math, science, foreign language classes. They appear on the transcript. We had one student who was so advanced in math that they bused him to the HS for math classes. He stayed in HS only 2 years, and they had run out of math classes for him, so he transferred to a state college that had a dual credit program - actually enrolled in the university but was earning HS credits as well. He transferred out after one year to MIT. Depends on the child.</p>
<p>This is a good question. Some kids, I think few, are ready for high school math...ready meaning they have learned how to do the arithmatic and have developed the right cognative stage to work on higher order of math problems involving algebra and geometry. Of the two I think algebra is toughest for many smart kids because they are leaving the security of concrete operations. California's math standard is algebra for 8th graders, which I think is driven by parental desire to have kids taking more advanced classes. There are a number of students who are smart enough to remember a process without understanding it and that is behind quite a bit of success, occassionally I get students who are developmentally advanced and you can really see the difference in the way they will play with a problem. For example they are more likely to understand why an equation like:</p>
<p>-a x -b = -c</p>
<p>gives us some information about a, b and c
(among other things they can't all be positive.)</p>
<p>A different type of concern has occurred under NCLB in California, where a 7th grader taking Algebra is not allowed to take a standardized test based upon the algebra curriculum. To the extent these standardized tests my affect you child...you should be aware that the state might make them take a test that does not match their course work. </p>
<p>A final concern of mine...I love to see a student advance be challenged but sometimes students are advanced not because they are above the level of the course but because they are just near the top...I think some students would benefit from being at the top of their class and not just in the middle of another one. For my own children, I looked to see what the classes were and who were the teachers.</p>
<p>Isn't it great to be challenged by how to help a talented child, I wish it was every parents dilema.</p>
<p>Mr. B:
In our district (state?) algebra has been required of all 8th graders for many years already. My kids's school pioneered the Algebra Project (Bob Moses was a parent) not long before my S1 began 5/6 gades.</p>