<p>I am wondering if there is any BTDT advice for parents of kids who took a lot of high school courses prior to high school. My son (a senior) was homeschooled and then attended a virtual charter school until he was 14. From ages 5-14 he completed all the math requirements through pre-calculus. He then chose to attend a local catholic high school. </p>
<p>As a freshman he took Calculus 1 & 2 -their highest math class. He has not had any math since. We tried to have him take some college level math at the local university but because of his age, cost, and block scheduling it never worked out. Now we are looking at his senior year and his gc is saying "colleges don't like to see no math senior year." He has excellent ACT, SAT, SAT Subject Math 2 and AP Calc AB/BC scores. He plans on applying to some top tier schools. Do you think the math will be an issue? Should I hunt down the virtual school from 4 years ago and have them submit his high school level courses to the colleges as well? It is tricky because he has a transcript from them but it was as an 8th grader with all high school level courses. Or, because his current transcript will show Calc 1&2 as a freshman isn't the high math ability implied? Is there a place on the common app to address this? </p>
<p>I don't feel the gc is being helpful in this situation. Is it my son's fault the school offers no other math? Also, it is not like he is trying to slack off his senior year. He has simply exhausted all of the school's upper math & science options at an early age. </p>
<p>Any thoughts/advice on this would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>Any admissions person who could not put 2+2 together here would be a dolt. :)</p>
<p>I would assume that you would have less trouble with this at top schools that have holistic admissions. I do think that your S–or the GC-- should briefly explain his educational background, and why he was unable to pursue math beyond sophomore year, though, because I think that top schools would prefer to see some effort made to continue with math/science through online/CC/college courses. Is there any possibility that he could take Stats this year? Or–just a thought–could he take advantage of something like MIT’s free online courses? There are some les august institutions that offer more advanced math online, also. This is assuming that he is actually <em>interested</em> in math.</p>
<p>You’ll need to have his high school guidance counselor explain why the kid took no math after freshman year. Yes, there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation . . . and it needs to come from the guidance counselor (as part of his letter of recommendation), not from your son.</p>
<p>And, yes, without any explanation, it would be a problem. Most kids manage to find a way to take the classes their school doesn’t offer - either online or through a local college. So, if this wasn’t an option, that needs to be explained.</p>
<p>Yes. Completion of calculus implies knowledge of the previous prerequisite math courses and is beyond the typical expectations of high school students (normal sequence is completion of precalculus and trigonometry as a senior), so that should not be a problem.</p>
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<p>Exhausting the available offerings in a subject is a perfectly obviously valid reason to have no courses in that subject as a high school senior.</p>
<p>If you or he feels that it needs explanation, a sentence explaining that he has exhausted the available offerings in math and science should suffice.</p>
<p>An AP Statistics course is being offered for the first time through a distance learning lab. The problem is his school block schedules which conflicts with most regular public school schedules. He could take the class but it would mean leaving his College English class early everyday and getting to his Spanish 4 late everyday and no lunch period. I could pack a lunch but I guess you are on video during the class so he might feel awkward with everyone watching him eat everyday. </p>
<p>I can try to pursue a college level math class for 2nd semester from the local university, but most of the time I hit a brick wall with that. Either the class is already filled or it isn’t the right level for him. He isn’t allowed to register until after everyone else. Statistics would be ideal, but I won’t know if that is available at the right time until they come out with the spring schedule in a few months. </p>
<p>Right now, his schedule is World History, Tech Applications, College English, Wind Ensemble and Current Issues. Next semester he has no first class (the ideal place to fit math if can find something), more College English, Spanish 4, Medical Terminology, and Wind Ensemble. We know it is a weak schedule but like I said earlier, he has already taken all the college level courses they offer (2 Chemistry’s, Political Science, Communications). He has also had three Biology classes. He is interested in pursuing science and will probably be pre-med. I have reached out to the public schools for a statistics class but they never responded. I don’t think there is a great spirit of cooperation between the local, over-populated public schools and my son’s school. </p>
<p>I will look into the MIT online course. Thanks! Is it an independent study or would he actually get a grade? The other option could be to have him study independently for the AP statistics class. Sorry I jumped around a bit with responses - just trying to answer everyone’s ?'s in one post.</p>
<p>Any thoughts on the virtual school transcript from 8th grade? I feel like it would be a mistake to introduce that into the equation but welcome other thoughts. Maybe it is a case of “what have you done lately?” vs. 4 years ago.</p>
<p>As an aside, I just want you to all know I fully appreciate the irony here of having a kid who is gifted and then not having MORE math be the stumbling block to acceptance at some higher level schools. I am trying to keep my sense of humor about this frustrating process with the gc/school.</p>
<p>Note that pre-meds do not need particularly advanced math courses for medical school – usually just calculus and statistics (though many medical schools want to see actual college courses rather than AP credit, and higher level courses are generally accepted if a student takes them after skipping the frosh-level courses with AP credit).</p>
<p>Note also that grades earned in college (not AP) courses taken while in high school will affect one’s medical school admissions GPA.</p>
<p>Of course, a pre-med whose major is something like math, statistics, or physics will need to take more advanced math courses.</p>
<p>And to me, this “weak” schedule (only two traditional academics per term) will be more problematic than having taken Calc as a Frosh/Soph. If he were my kid, I drop Med Term and Tech App, and pickup some college courses at local college.</p>
<p>My suggestions is to have him take Calculus III or statistics online. Alternatively, see if he can self-study it with the help of a teacher during a study block. Sciences should have labs and are trickier (there’s a huge gap between AP/freshman chem and organic chem), so focus on the math.</p>
<p>Looks like he could take AP stats through Northwestern’s EPGY. I had forgotten about them. I also checked and there are still openings for Calc III at the local U. I think cost wise they are comparable. AP stats would be more independent so he could keep his current schedule and just add stats. Calc III would eliminate World History from his schedule. </p>
<p>From what I have looked at most pre-med/med want the stats over Calc 3. He would be taking either one of these just to have math filler as I agree, the AP Stats may not transfer depending on where he goes to college. The Calc 3 has a greater chance of counting. </p>
<p>I agree tech apps and med terminology should be dropped. They are filler because nothing else fits on his schedule. Med term is 2nd semester at the end of the day so it might be a good one to get rid of and substitute with another math. Tech apps is harder to get rid of because it is in the middle of the day. </p>
<p>In terms of science, I am okay with what he has: 2 college level chem, 2 upper bio and physics.</p>
<p>Yes, but that is not at all the same as taking no math classes of any kind during sophomore, junior, and senior years. This most certainly does require an explanation, and the explanation needs to be provided by the GC.</p>
<p>And even if the OP is able to find an online or other class for senior year, that does not make the problem of no math classes during sophomore and junior year disappear. It is an issue that should be addressed (by the GC) in your son’s college applications.</p>
<p>But ucbalumnus is quite correct that your son does not need to mention any classes taken prior to 9th grade. Taking calculus in 9th grade implies the completion of all prerequisites sometime prior.</p>
<p>A few follow-up comments/questions. What I am reading is that this falls more on the GC’s end than ours in terms of college apps . I will make sure to mention to her (if can ever speak to her) that it is important she address the math thing in the GC recommendation. If there is some way for my son to address on the Common App he will. I just don’t want it to come off as a pity party. It truly is a case of things just never aligning correctly.</p>
<p>If GPA, test scores, teacher recs, possible NMF/valedictorian are all solid, how much do you think the transcript will hurt chances at a top-tier or even a second-tier for that matter? I don’t think at the state school level the transcript is too much of an issue given the other pluses, but I know the stakes are so much higher the further you reach. </p>
<p>It wouldn’t be easy to pay an extra $1000 for an additional math class given we are already paying tuition as well, but we would do it if it is in his best interest. I think dodgersmom is correct in saying another math class doesn’t change the fact that sophomore and junior year had no math. An explanation is still needed. Ultimately the question becomes will spending an extra grand help my son’s chances at a top-tier. Even with his academic resume I know his chances are still slim. Would that money be better spent at whatever school he gets into/chooses down the road?</p>
<p>I agree with others that that senior year course load does not sound rigorous enough to get into top tier colleges - especially without the math. Colleges care about valedictorian status, but they care just as much about the rigor of the courseload.</p>
<p>What explanation is needed, beyond “exhausted all available offerings at the high school, and cost and/or commuting logistics made it unfeasable to take more advanced college math courses” (which one can easily infer even if left unexplained)?</p>
<p>Why would it not be clear, when the OP has already indicated that the student has exhausted the offerings? (Of course, there may be an argument about why the OP paid private school tuition for a school with insufficient offerings for the student, but perhaps those private schools with available offerings were too expensive or too distant, and the public school was even worse in this respect.)</p>
<p>When deciding on the private vs. public school it was a case of attending a very large public school where you would just be a number or the private school where he would have many more opportunities in leadership, science, athletics, and music. We also chose it for religious reasons as well. It was always assumed that somehow we would be able to make the math work. Unfortunately, that ended up to not be the case. </p>
<p>I just want to be clear, he has an excellent transcript except for the math situation.</p>
<p>I think this goes to intellectual curiosity. There are plenty of ways for a kid who is mathematically talented and interested in math to learn more math, and they’re plenty easy to document. If the school is unable or unwilling to teach the student more math, and if for whatever reason that school is the right fit, the student should go learn some more math on his own. It’s not a race to “finish math” so you don’t have to learn any more. What was the point of pushing to learn all of that math if it wasn’t going to be used and the student isn’t going to learn any more. (It’s not like this student isn’t going to want to take multi-variable calculus or statistics at some point.)</p>
<p>Now, if this student were pushing the envelope in other areas, that might make a difference.</p>
<p>There was no race or pushing to finish math. When he was homeschooled he went at his own pace and just picked up the next level - which is easy to do when it is algebra 2 or geometry. It gets trickier when you need to rely on someone else/institution to teach higher levels. He has always pushed the envelope in all areas so not only do you have to factor in an intellectual curiosity, but also a life-balance and the reality of where you live, other people in the family, and the resources you have available to you at the time. Many of the decisions that were made had to be made at a much younger age than one would normally expect. It has always been difficult to try and gauge future interests and make judgments on something that may not come up for several years.</p>
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