<p>Mother of a DPT here. Applicants for DPT programs are not limited to the highly expensive programs described by the OP. State schools have much more affordable programs. Also, if a student knows in high school that he/she is going to pursue physical therapy, investigating the direct entry programs which essentially assure admission to PT school and allow the fourth year of undergraduate school overlap with first year of the three year graduate PT program is a way to decrease the cost of a DPT course of study.</p>
<p>*Sorry if this was a reiteration of anything posted earlier. I didn’t read the entire thread.</p>
<p>Our state school, the University of Washington, now estimates the cost of the 33-month program conservatively at $136,000, and starting salary as $65,000.</p>
<p>University of Puget Sound would be about $27k more. There is also a small program at Eastern Washington University. That’s all there is in my state.</p>
<p>In Indiana, public school DPT tuition, books, and fees is $55K. Kentucky (public) tuition and fees $48k (didn’t look at books), Michigan tuition approximately $65k. Starting salary of $60 to $65 k is in ballpark for Indiana for outpatient rehab for PT’s. Inpatient acute care is higher. New grads who were going into wound care supposedly were getting offers of $80k last year.</p>
<p>BTW, the annual earnings for RN’s with associate degrees in this area of the country are not near as high as what have been posted on this thread for other areas of the country. I am currently in a two year RN program and in this area starting pay is in the $50k range. We’ve already been told that we will need to complete the BSN to advance career wise.</p>
<p>There is a difference between annual salaries and annual earnings. As noted, in this part of the country, nurses have a lower average salary than PTs (but not by much), but higher (or at least as high) average earnings. That is because of overtime practices.</p>
<p>The costs are included for PT school include living costs and insurance. Those in school basically can’t work. Two-year RNs can start working as LPNs after their first year.</p>
<p>As for career advancement, for nurses it is all about experience. With the exception of school nursing and public health nursing, a 2-year RN with two years of experience (actually three, because of the LPN), will have a much easier time advancing (and, at the end of three years working) have a significantly higher salary than a 4-year BSN.</p>
<p>I just checked salary.com, and the average DPT (not starting, but average) in Indianapolis makes about $5k more a year in salary than the average hospice nurse, exactly the same differential we have in this part of the country. When all income is added together, I expect it is likely the same as here, where the nurse actually earns more.</p>
<p>^ not sure why you keep comparing PT to hospice nurse…and we get it, you think nurses earn about the same as PTs…but you do realize there are people who want to be PTs and not nurses…right??</p>
<p>I think it is wonderful that people want to be PTs, and think they should be paid MUCH more than nurses. The point (remember: the name of this thread - and the question that the OP asked is "Advice: Physical Therapy vs. Nursing) is that they better really want to be PTs, because the relative return on investment - both in time and money (and, I think, in ultimate quality of life, because of the array of choices) way over on the nursing side.</p>
<p>So, I don’t know what you are doing, but I’m addressing the OP’s question, and the name of this thread. And I am also concerned that would-be PTs won’t decide to go that route because, relative to the investment of time, energy, and money, the return is so very poor. We need more PTs (as well as nurses).</p>
<p>Sorry, didn’t realize you were talking overtime pay. My main interest in this thread was OP’s original data about top DPT programs costing $200 k to complete. Yes a top program like WUSTL would probably cost that much. But a PT does not need to go to a top program and costs can be a fraction of what the OP stated if some research is put into action.</p>
<p>In this part of the country(NE), 2 year programs are going to be eventually phased out. Most employers are now asking for BSN’s. There is a shortage of clinical nurses and college nursing professors, instructors. New grads are having a very hard time finding an entry jobs into nursing. Over the past decade, hospitals had to come up with preceptor programs for new grads, because they are not ready to do clinical nursing right outof school. So there is a lot of financial investment in hiring new grad RN’s, who cannot function as a staff nurse safely. Many of the students that I taught had to take nursing assistant jobs just to get their foot in the door. They eventual were hired as RN’s but we are talng 10-12 months later. If tou are will to relocate to other areas that mya have shortages, then you may have a shot, but here on the East coast, we are saturated.</p>
<p>OTSUNS: My daughter is finishing up her 2nd year in kinesiology and intends to go on to grad school to get her Master’s in OT. She’s wanted to be an occupational therapist since she was 15. Lately she’s been looking at schools and would really like to go back East in an urban setting, although will consider CA schools for financial reasons. She’s currently at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Were you able to get a Bachelor’s in OT before they changed the requirement? I know OT school won’t be as costly as DPT, but still not cheap. I hope there will be work out there for her when all is done! :)</p>
<p>Explore both fields with the intention of loving what you do! There is always a demand for both professionals… I am an occupational therapist. I will tell you one thing for certain. In my field there remains a tremendous shortage and at this time no need to complete a doctorate! The pay for OTs and PTs is the same! I can perform every therapeutic activity a PT performs, overlap tx practices with SLPs, and document in my practice arena. This arena is HUGE! The program is very difficult but so what. Public/state universities are the best options and the least $$. One should not have to obtain a doctorate to practice PT (ask any PTA) and I am very serious. Just spend a small amount of time and volunteer in an acute care environment this summer. Not only does this look great on your application, it is an opportunity to know much more what the job(s) are really like! A lot of my PT friends love would have liked to have been OT and my Nursing friends administer Meds all day if they are not calling doctor’s for orders etc!</p>
<p>Peoples’ fixation on hospice nursing aside, the ultimate intention of the DPT is to bring the profession to full autonomy on a national scale.</p>
<p>The APTA doesn’t price the profession.</p>
<p>Athletic trainers have some of the most demanding fieldwork requirements of any profession.</p>
<p>A physical therapy assistant is an assistant; they have less training and cannot conduct all the duties of a DPT. In clinical settings such as nursing homes and chronic care facilities where less technical skill and knowledge is required, there may not be an actual need for a DPT, and employing a PT-assistant is a cost savings.</p>
<p>An occupational therapist will tend to practice in a different clinical scope than a physical therapist. Most occupational therapists do not practice in an independent clinic setting.</p>
<p>In many states, a DPT/PT has greater options to enter private practice where autonomy and revenue are self-determined. This is not the case for the other professions mentioned.</p>
<p>Same thing is happening with nurse practioners - the professional organization is pushing to require a doctoral degree instead of just a masters. Many states have been resisting that change. </p>
<p>Does anyone ask the question whether these professional organizations are trying to limit the competition for their current members, who are grandfathered under the old requirements???</p>
<p>It seems we may as well go on with this discussion because I think we lost the OP a while ago. DPT, Im asking this to gain an understanding of the direction our field is going. Do you feel that your education has prepared you for autonomous practice? If so and if you can answer easily what has been added to the DPT program to prepare you for this? I ask this as a bachelors level PT. Honestly even after 30+ years of practice I dont feel altogether comfortable with autonomous practice. Also, I agree with you that nursing homes are generally less technical than some other sites that PTs work, but aside from the law that prevents it, I would not see it as a positive move for quality of care to eliminate PTs from being at the helm in nursing homes, acute rehab facilities or other venues where PTAs work very closely with PTs. Yet these are jobs that a DPT seems overqualified for and as I have said before, looking at how some facilities including nursing homes operate it is hard to see that the PTs job is at such a significantly higher level than a PTAs that one job would require a doctorate and the other an Associates degree. I think that our profession would have done well to keep the entry level degree at a masters and gone with an advanced DPT for more technical aspects of the field such as autonomous practice. The fact is that old folks like me will be in the Nursing home soon and we will still need PTs to take care of us. If nursing home jobs are below the level of the DPT who will take these jobs? PTAs do allow these facilities to operate more cost effectively but the PTA education does not prepare a PTA to make all of the decisions that PTs make. Furthermore I know of private practices that are owned and operated by PTAs who employ PTs to do evaluations. This may not be how it should be but it is how it is. If PTAs can accomplish this with an associates degree and PTs have the additional expense of education, PTs encumber by excessive debt may have less opportunity to actually establish a private practice than a PTA. PT is a wonderful career and I hope that by upgrading the degree we dont downgrade the quality of care that many patients are able to receive.</p>