Advice Sought on High School Plans

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi, parents, </p>

<p>I'm a 13 year old homeschooler finishing 8th grade. My parents are letting me design my own "school" plan for next year, so I was wondering what you think the ideal plan would be. </p>

<p>What I'm doing currently is studying calculus I at the University of Minnesota, taking an honors biology class in a lab space with other homeschoolers, learning Java at a commercial college, taking a CTD distance learning class in Logo, and continuing the EPGY C11C programming class. I also took an AP chemistry class earlier this year with my homeschooler support group. </p>

<p>Now I'm looking at different possibilities for my next school year. It might be that I could enroll full time at a community college, I can do full time distance learning, I can do full time at a strong high school. I could also do a mix of two of the last three. My main interests are math, computer science, and computer graphics. I do a lot of math competitions and have scored the highest score in my AMC region on the AMC 10, but I haven't done any computer competitions yet.</p>

<p>I spend most of my free time working on a computer role playing game, which my friends and I work on over a Google Group. I do most of the programming and graphics design in addition to beginning the script; at our current rate of progress this will probably take two years :). I also play travelling soccer. </p>

<p>I'm very open minded about where and when I will enroll in college.</p>

<p>What kind of plan for next year would you recommend? What kind of learning experiences do you think I should be sure not to miss? I would appreciate any advice you have for me.</p>

2

<p>A+MATH,</p>

<p>First of all, congratulations on the maturity you are demonstrating in asking for advice about shaping your high school curriculum. From the level of classes you are taking, I assume you are planning an early graduation and early attendance at college?</p>

<p>Second, your math, science, and computer science bases are all covered. As a high schooler interested in a college prep curriculum, you need to make sure all of the other bases are covered, too. That is, you need to demonstrate 4 years of English, at least 3 and preferrably 4 years of a language, and at least 3 years of history/social studies/humanities. And don't forget an experience in the arts of some kind or another (not necessarily performing, but, if this isn't your "thing," try visual arts or art history) as well as something physical.</p>

<p>Finally, push away from the keyboard and develop an outside interest. Whatever charges you up. Of if computers ARE your outside interest, pursue something about it out of the ordinary, above and beyond!</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

3

<p>A+math:</p>

<p>You wouldn't be Tokenadult's son by any chance, would you?</p>

<p>If you were to enroll full-time in a community college, you would be 17 when you graduate. Then on to graduate school. A 17-year old joined my H's graduate group, and he was not very happy to be the lone teenager in a group full of 25 years old, some of them married. But that's only one story and there are other young students who have been very happy despite the disparity in age between them and their classmates.
If you were to go to the community college, how good a school is it? Once you've gone to a college, you can't really go to college again. you might pass up an opportunity to attend other schools with wonderful programs in the areas that interest you such as Harvard, Caltech, MIT, Princeton, etc... However, if the college has what you want in terms of breadth of offerings and quality of curriculum, then do consider going there, even full-time.
Quuiltguru's advice about covering all bases is excellent. And since you are so advanced in math and science, you should have plenty of time meeting those requirements.
I'll be very interested in what you decide, so keep us posted!</p>

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<p>quiltguru, thanks for your reply. </p>

<p>I was wondering, what are the differences between taking english at a community college versus taking english at a highschool?</p>

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<p>A+MATH,</p>

<p>The main difference is actually between community college English and AP English. You will not get transfer credit/college credit for most community college English classes. You may get credit or placement for an AP class. So, as a homeschooler, I'd suggest you look into the on-line AP classes and take the exams...and do well!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

6

<p>I STRONGLY suggest going to a regular high school. If the local ones in your area are crappy, look into boarding schools - you seem very likely to win a scholarship if you tried. </p>

<p>While you're clearly very bright, I think that neither you nor anyone else would benefit from going to CC at 17. You can take classes with academically weak adults and uninspiring instructors while being a total social outcast, or you could be with smart people your own age, fitting in socially while maybe taking extra courses or doing an internship on the side - and at 17 or 18 go to an Ivy and study with the best minds in the world. </p>

<p>If you go to CC now it's HIGHLY unlikely that you'll ever win admittance at a top school simply because they are very wary of taking very young kids with little experience. Plenty of people have gone on to fame and fortune after going to college at 16, but I can't think of any who did it at 13.</p>

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<p>I agree with quiltguru -- definitely make sure to take what courses you need for college prep. You need not take the same things a regular school would have. You just need to have courses in the right categories. My daughter managed to touch all the bases while still structuring her high school education as she wished and continuing study in the area that interests her the most. The great majority of the courses on her high school transcript are not ones offered in local schools. </p>

<p>You can certainly come to the homeschooling board for any specific details, hints, etc. You probably already know about the high school homeschooling boards out there too, right? (A good Yahoo group is hs2coll, in case you didn't.). This will give you ideas and experience from those who have gone through the college application process successfully. You can also find folks who have dealt with interests similar to yours (my homeschooled child [now in college] is into Egyptology, so what we did is far different than what would suit you).</p>

<p>Many homeschoolers do have community college courses on their transcripts, either to show some objective evaluation or to get courses otherwise difficult to do at home. I wouldn't advise being a full-time student, however, because then you would go to a 4 year college as a transfer -- which may lead to higher hurdles, difficulties establishing credit for particular courses and the like. (Then this might not be a concern, if your state system has the sort of arrangement where there is an explicit understanding between the state's 2 and 4 year colleges as to admissions, transfer of credits, and the like and a state 4 year college is where you want to end up.) We didn't go the CC route; I would advise asking on a homeschool list about the various in's and out's if you are leaning toward this possibility.</p>

<p>Actually, you may be too young to be a full-time CC student in your state. I think in my state one has to be at least 16. I know that a friend's son took some courses when he was younger and the college required her to physically escort him to and from each class. He couldn't, say, hang out in the library studying between classes. It was very burdensome, to say the least. Then he reported that he thought the courses went too slowly because his classmates didn't understand the material.</p>

<p>But then, I've heard of kids who did like their CC courses. So you may wish to ask around and see what the rep of your local CC is.</p>

<p>Since homeschooling is working for you academically, you seem satisfied with it, and you obviously are getting out of the house and interacting with your peers frequently in a variety of settings, there is no reason to change what you are doing. There are more possibilities than you list. You can take courses at a regular college, a CC, by correspondence or online, with other homeschoolers, or at home -- in any combination. You may even live in a place that allows homeschoolers to take certain courses at the local high school. Figure out what you want to take and then see the best way to go about it.</p>

<p>A couple other suggestions -- if you can continue taking math at the University of Minnesota, definitely do so. My son took calculus early too, and then did three years of the Stanford EPGY program. The program is good, but is administered, well, not so well. Other people have shared with me similar tales of bureaucratic delays. Then it turns out my son's university would not accept the EPGY credits (silly us, we thought "Stanford credits" would work ...). He didn't have to retake the courses, but he could have simply studied the material by himself and declared that he didn't need to take them, too!</p>

<p>Get hold of one or more of the books by Cafi Cohen. She has written about homeschooling teens, high school, college admission, etc. You may also find "The Well-Trained Mind" and "Reading Lists for College-Bound Students" useful in figuring out how to handle courses that don't get farmed out.</p>

<p>Any homeschooling list can give you suggestions about writing programs, textbooks for particular subjects, etc.</p>

<p>I don't mean to be overwhelming. You plan a little at a time and before you know it you've got it. And, if something doesn't work, you can always move on to something else. You have a great deal of flexibility to come up with a customized education, as you no doubt already realize.</p>

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<p>i dont think anything can be overwhelming for him. look at what he's done already. that makes me feel overwhelmed and im going to college.</p>

9

<p>Wonderful advice, DianeR. It strikes me that your comments may apply to a large readership in the CC community, especially parents. Would you consider posting something similar under it's own' title (e.g. homeschooler's options for college prep or something like that) in the parents' forum? My D is NOT a homeschooler but has many friends who are. You really opened my eyes.</p>

10

<p>A+math:</p>

<p>DianeR makes some excellent suggestions, which I will not repeat.<br>
To address your question about the difference between high school and college courses, here are some areas of difference:
Even with the block schedule, more time in spent in class in high school than in a typical college. Some of the extra time in the high school class is wasted by the teacher needing to maintain control and dealing with other non-academic issues; nonetheless, there is more time available to teach and learn. Consequently, high school classes can seem a bit slow for fast learners.
There's more handholding in a high school than in college.
There are likely to be more assignments in high school than in college. Some may seem like make-work for fast learners, but they also provide practice. Some college courses may have a midterm, a final paper and a final exam. If you have never taken a course in a particular discipline, this may not be sufficient introduction to the expectations of the course.
Some college classes can be huge. Even when crowded, high school classes do not go very much above 30. Some college classes can have several hundred students. </p>

<p>If you are taking math classes at the University of Minnesota, I encourage you to take other classes as well there instead of at a community college. If you are not a full-time student, you will not jeopardize your ability to apply to college later on. Introductory science classes are very similar to AP science classes and often use the same textbook. If you wish, take the AP test for these classes at the end of the year for the sake of "credentialling." Also take some classes in literature, foreign languages and history. I do not think you will have to demonstrate that you have taken 4 years of ELA or Social studies if you are taking college-level courses. My S had to, but that was to fulfill the graduation requirements of his high school. You are aiming to fulfill the expectations of colleges.</p>

<p>Since you will not be attending class full time, take the opportunity to explore different types of extracurricular activities. You already have a sport. Perhaps music or some visual arts? community service?</p>

11

<p>"If you go to CC now it's HIGHLY unlikely that you'll ever win admittance at a top school simply because they are very wary of taking very young kids with little experience. Plenty of people have gone on to fame and fortune after going to college at 16, but I can't think of any who did it at 13."</p>

<p>My d. homeschooled, began taking cc classes at age 13, the first being pre-med chemistry, had 66 credits from two-and-four year colleges before she entered as a first-year college student at 16, was admitted with scholarships to top colleges, had excellent instructors at the community college - many of whom were actually working in their fields, and her current college, with very rare exception, accepts NO AP credits (you can test out of some classes by taking their own exam.)</p>

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<p>quiltguru -- Actually, the entire issue of college prep has been discussed in the homeschool forum and I think most homeschoolers would come there. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=147180%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=147180&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There really are so many ways to go about it. I hardly consider myself an expert even though I've gone through it all. The best advice I can give is for people to search out the forums where there are a lot of homeschoolers, so they can get a variety of opinions and options.</p>

<p>A+MATH -- Another book you might want to look up is Rupp's "Home Learning Year by Year." Also, don't feel bound to use high school texts. We used college texts for most everything because we thought they were better. Finally, you don't even have to use texts for every course. For instance, for some subjects, we used a combination of college-level Teaching Company courses with supplemental reading, discussion, and papers.</p>

<p>There is no one size fits all approach to homeschooling high school. My daughter did some courses during the summer at a college and took one correspondence course each year in her desired field. Everything else was done at home -- and her only testing was the ACT. Others will take more outside courses, have tutors, undertake more testing, and the like. It depends on preferences and probably on what you are interested in, too.</p>