<p>I've been following this website for several months, and consider it another source for college planning.</p>
<p>Here is my son's situation: He is currently in the 8th. grade at a competitive private school. He's a top student with a 95 average. His math class is Algebra of which is in the middle track. The upper track in studying Geom. He currently has a 91 average in Alg. His math teacher wants him to take both Algebra 2 and Geometry next year in order to get into the top track. Math is the only subject in which he is not highly gifted. He is considering taking two foreign languages in HS ( French and Chinese) in grade 9. If he stays on his current track he will take Calculus as a Sr. with 4 years of math. Or if he takes the advanced track he could either take Stats AP or Calculus 2 as a Sr. He could then take the two languages in 10th. grade. While he is a solid, but not gifted math student, he is gifted in science. His greatest gift is his writing ability.My concern is not a career question now as much as one of college admissions. I know select colleges want to know if a student took the most rigorous classes in HS. Would AP classes along with two foreign languages qualify for that if he stays in the middle math track?</p>
<p>Put another way,do you think a young student should concentrate on his strong areas or his relatively weak one?</p>
<p>Concentrate on his strengths. My d took regular math starting in 10th grade. She took regular (not honors) calculus as a senior (that's the norm in our high school, even for kids who take AP Calculus). She got into some very competitive, excellent schools just below Ivy level (she wasn't shooting for the ivies).</p>
<p>If your son is not good in math, or he just doesn't like it, having him take 2 math classes as a freshman will make him miserable. There's more to life than getting into Harvard.</p>
<p>If he doesn't have block scheduling,I would be reluctant to have him schedule two math classes simultaneously. First of all, as you have pointed out, that is an area of relative weakness. Math usually requires homework each night and he would be spending a lot of time on homework for each of these classes, before he even has a chance to tackle his other subjects. </p>
<p>I also believe there is a developmental aspect to math. You may find that he is much more successful in math as he gets older if we don't scare him away. I'm hoping he has geometry next year and tackles Algebra II as a sophomore. Earlier is not always better in math and as you pointed out, he will have Calculus as a senior. I would rather see him double up on math with Calc and Stats as a senior than start him off with a double math schedule as a freshman. </p>
<p>I don't think he will be seen as not taking a challenging schedule if he stays on his current track. </p>
<p>And there is something to be said for sanity.</p>
<p>This is tough call.
On the one hand, Chedva is right. There is more to life than getting into X college, whatever that is. You don't want your son to be so busy trying to keep up with subjects he doesn't like that he has no time to cultivate his passion. On the other hand, geometry is a different animal from algebra, and sometimes the kids that find algebra challenging skate through geometry.
I know your son is young, but my advice is to let him choose. Present the pros and cons, let him know what his schedule will look like through the years, and let him chart his path. It sounds like his teacher believes he can do it. The question is, what does he want?</p>
<p>Another plus on the side of giving it a try is that having a bit of a background in calculus can be a big help when he gets to physics. Both of my kids felt that the kids in their physics classes who had been exposed to calculus as juniors had a much easier time than those who had no exposure until senior year to calculus.</p>
<p>My advice is to let him stay in the track he's in. What your teacher is proposing should only be undertaken by a student who isn't being challenged in his current level, for example, one who is earning a 100 average but complains about the slow pace. I don't see that in your description, although I would advise consulting the teacher for more details. </p>
<p>As far as colleges go, your child's record could show some low grades if the math double-up isn't successful. Would he be able to earn a top mark in the class with the best math students? Will the faster pace make keeping up difficult? If he stays at his current level, wouldn't he be much more likely to earn the top grade? That could make a significant difference on his transcript, enough to offset the degree of course difficulty. Finally, you know your child best: what would make him happiest? He will be entering a challenging stage in his adolescence, and the double-up might make things much harder for everyone.</p>
<p>As a student, I'll put in my 2 cents. I was on the high track. I took Alg 1 in 7th, Geo in 8th, and Alg 2 in 9th. I made A's and B's throughout. Unfortunately, I had a major health deterioration in 10th grade and walked away from precalc (having attended class only a couple times) with a C. </p>
<p>Here's where it gets back to your situation. I retook precalc as a junior AND took AP Statistics. AP Statistics is not a math class, it is a writing and calculator class. If you are concerned about taking math at an AP level, that is a very flexible option. Taking AP Stats and another math class will be significantly easier than taking Geometry and Algebra II simultaneously.</p>
<p>I would point out the pros and cons and ASK HIM what he wants to do. It's not uncommon for kids in our HS, trying to play catch up, to take Geometry and Alg 2 at the same time. Like someone pointed out, Geometry is a totally different ballgame. Some kids like it, others don't but it doesn't "follow" or "lead up to" algebra 2. Some kids find it easier to go directly to Algebra 2, directly from Algebra 1, because they don't lose that year and forget what they learned. But in the end, I think a kid's drive and determination is as important than innate ability. Another thought: taking French and Chinese at the same time is quite a challenge. My 3 kids are strong in math/science and would do fine with the 2 math courses but would probably find doubling up in languages exceedingly difficult.</p>
<p>His preference would be to not take the two math classes. But A.S.A.P. brought up a great point about Jr. Calculus making Physics much easier. My son is gifted in science. His science teacher last year told us he "set the bar" for the rest of the class. That's why this is such a tough call. But I'm listening to everyone and getting some good insights.</p>
<p>OK, I'll jump in as a father of a 10th grade girl who is currently doubling up (simultaneously) on Geometry and Algebra II (her choice) at a boarding school (no block schedule). She is doing this because she wants to get to Calculus as a senior alongside the Physics that goes with it, so hers (because of the no block schedule) is a sequencing choice. Her local public school (despite her straight A average) declined to put her in Algebra in 8th grade (one of the many reasons for moving on to boarding school).</p>
<p>I see no problem in doubling up from a difficulty with math situation, especially if your son is good in science as well as verbal (not just a one-trick pony). Algebra is all about the equation (quantitative thinking) while geometry is all about the triangle (spatial thinking). My D is having an easier time in the Algebra II than the Geometry (much to my surprise as she is an athlete who depends on angles) so far.</p>
<p>I don't think it is an automatic though in your case. </p>
<p>The question I would ask is what would he take if he DIDN'T take 2 math courses? If it is an equally challenging course, it should be a wash from the resume side (BTW, I am not a believer in trying to create the best resume as a method of developing children). If sequencing is not an issue (sounds like it if you have block scheduling), I say keeping a balance of strenghts and weaknesses across all classes over the years is probably the best strategy to keep a level-headed kid performing consistently.</p>
<p>BTW, the "Most Rigorous Courses" question is not that he was #1 in all possible subjects, but that your son elected to take the highest levels of classes in his studies that he qualified for in his area of interest and required classes. So, if you have a more verbal child, who takes AP French instead of AP Physics as their last class filling in their senior year, it doesn't matter. Likewise, the prospective engineering student shouldn't feel compelled to take that 4th year of French (AP) when he can take the AP Physics.</p>
<p>And for the most part, if the kid is not passionate about the subject area, you probably shouldn't push the speed of the courses.</p>
<p>Last note: College admissions is not out to choose the pointiest heads in the class, so relax about the competitive (gotta take all the top classes) attitude. Once a kid is in the top 5% of his class, EC's and unique experiences become more important than that next AP class. Plus they make childhood a lot more fun! :)</p>
<p>I think taking Calculus as a senior is fine for competitive schools, even in a school where some kids fit in two years of calculus. Taking two foreign languages, especially an unusual one like Chinese will make him stand out as an applicant. In our school almost no one gets to take Algebra before 8th grade, but some math/science kids who wanted to jump ahead took precalc in the summer. According to my son that's the easiest course to compact. He thought it moved very, very slowly. At any rate, I think he should do what he likes, because I think both the choices will be fine for competitive admissions.</p>
<p>I think you might be setting yourself up for some unhappy times if you push your son to move faster in math than he wants to. My H and I are currently living through a nightly harangue about how we ruined our daughter's life by encouraging her to take honors Algebra II instead of regular Algebra II. </p>
<p>Be warned. If the doubling up goes poorly, you will be blamed if you pushed for it.</p>
<p>It might be possible to complete a geometry course over the summer--if that is what your son wants to spend his summer doing! </p>
<p>There are different kinds of block schedules. At my daughter's school, it means each class meets every other day for a year (long class periods); at some schools, it means a class meets for a longer period every day of the week and then it's over after one semester. If your son's school is on the model of my daughter's, then perhaps he will discover very early in the semester that it is too much, and he can drop Algebra II and pick up something else, thereby reverting to the normal math track. Is that a possibility?</p>
<p>I don't think it is odd that streak would seek advice here. The scheduling decisions that her S makes now will cascade through the rest of his HS course schedule.</p>
<p>When our S was scheduling for 9th grade, we plotted out a 4-year plan so we could understand the implications of various choices. And I consulted various University admission web sites so we would know what the expectations were there (the HS doesn't have the best counseling dept). The 4-year plan was not followed to the letter, but it was a very helpful guiding document. I'm sure that many of S's friends' parents thought I was crazy. As it happened, some of them were a bit surprised when reality hit in their students' junior and senior years. So, crazy or not, this worked out well in our S's case.</p>
<p>Streak,
Your S has so many interests and strengths, why push him to double up on math? He could end up hating the subject. Why not let him pursue science and 2 languages?</p>
<p>We "denied" our child the accelerated math track as an eighth grader. We were the only parents in the HISTORY of the school to do so. DH (who had a concentration in math as a college student and uses math in his career extensively) felt very strongly that a good foundation in math was very important. He didn't feel there was any compelling reason to have calculus in high school. DD was NOT happy with us, but in the end, it was absolutely the right decision. She is a fine math student with an excellent foundation for calculus...which she took as a freshman in college last year. There was no need to rush along, and she got the calculus eventually anyway!!</p>
<p>DD did the middle track in math, as your son is doing - straight A's in HS in all classes, including Physics, and sal of her class. Counselor could check off she was taking the most challenging courses, because she was on the Distinguished Diploma plan. There are many mutations to the "challenging courses" definition. In other words - Honors, AP or Regulars? Not the speed at which they get through those classes. D had Calculus her senior year, and she is at an elite college. And her SAT math score was really huge. It didn't matter one bit.</p>
<p>There is one other concern to this, for me. As a teacher, I see many kids struggle to adjust to HS their freshman year. Add to that 2 math classes when your son has to work harder at them, may make that first year much more traumatic than it already is. If it were my D, I wouldn't do it.</p>