Advice/Suggestions on hiring private admission consultant

Parents Forum
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<p>I completely agree with the comments from sybbie719 and my2sons in thread "Effects of College Counseling on High-Archiving, Low-income Students" that the issue is not limited to low-income students. I am opening up the thread to seek advice/suggestions for hiring private counselor. </p>

<p>My son is a junior now and will start his college application journey soon. It's already very clear to me that we won't get any help from GC at his school at all. Our school, like many other public schools in the economic hardest hit state, is messed up with budget issues. A lot of teaches are pink-slipped, including the the counselor and teachers who are teaching some of my son's junior classes. The teacher for one of his AP class has already been replaced THREE times before March! Well, our school is actaully regarded as one of the top public schools in the area, with a lot of capable kids and great teachers, plus middle-upper income parents. However only one 1 or 2 kids can make into the top selective schools each year out of ~500 graduates. I have just heard that one of the top students in the senior class who got a perfect ACT score got rejected from every top schools he applied to. He is definitely not the "nerd" type, and has a lot of EC activities as well. </p>

<p>I have heard that it is a "common" practice in east/west coast that parents hire private counselor or admission consultant to help during the college application process. Since it is most unheard in my area, I would like to seek advices/suggessions or lessons-learned from parents with such experieces. Thanks a lot!</p>

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<p>Where I have seen admissions counselors help a lot is when they have great relationships with the admissions officers at the college you are trying to get into. A relationship that has developed over time by the admissions counselor proving that the candidates they are pushing have excelled in the colleges after acceptance.</p>

<p>My son goes to a private school with 6 full-time admissions counselors who travel the country trying to develop these relationships. </p>

<p>There are schools they have great relationships at and can help get kids into. There are other schools they haven’t been able to develop the same relationships at, like Stanford. While they can get qualified kids into Ivy League schools every year, they have been very unsuccessful with Stanford. </p>

<p>My point… Even if you have a top-notch admissions counselor, that doesn’t guarantee they can help you get into the college you want to get into. Make sure you screen them well. Make sure they can give you names and examples of scenarios at the schools you are looking at where they have been successful getting kids in and why.</p>

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<p>SmilieMe: we’re not East Coast/West Coast (anymore!) & I don’t know of anyone in our area that uses consultants either. IMHO, the wealth of information you can find on CC coupled with your own research can come close to the info you’d get from a private counselor. You won’t get the “packaging” but if you like to do research anyway you can save yourself a few thousand dollars.</p>

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<p>The people I know who hired college counselors didn’t get any help in terms of “pull.” What they mostly got was a buffer between themselves and the kid during the process, e.g., Counselor met with kid to determine interests and developed a set of target schools to consider. Family then made choices from among them. Most importantly, Counselor rode herd on kid with regards to essays and deadlines sparing a lot of nagging from parent.</p>

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<p>I have no personal experience with admission consultants, but I have heard that the use of their athletic counterparts can actually be detrimental in the recruiting/admissions process. It seems that these students look too “packaged”, which many adcoms find unappealing.</p>

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<p>This has been our experience and I’m 100% behind that approach. While there are good college counselors, we’ve also seen our share of unhappy parents and HS seniors from mediocre counselors. It’s tough for private counselors to compete with parents who invest the time to do the necessary research.</p>

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<p>We hired a private counselor because of a similar situation at D’s high school. </p>

<p>Mostly it was because we were going through the process for the first time and weren’t confident that D had enough financial safeties on her list. We also were interested in having a “buffer” between D and ourselves, because she didn’t agree that she needed more financial safeties.</p>

<p>In retrospect, D’s choices were fine and we spent a lot of money for a little bit of help in the process. The counselor was good, but really not necessary. The next time around I think we will do it on our own. CC does have a lot of wisdom and after a few years of reading the board I’m pretty confident that we can work with our S and come up with plenty of good options.</p>

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<p>We had a college admissions counselor first time around. Didn’t have one the second time. It was a huge waste of money and time for my D. Unless you are a parent who cannot communicate with your kid (and I know there are lots of those) and need a go-between, or if you are willing to pay top dollar for a really savvy counselor with serious pull (and there aren’t many of those) I wouldn’t bother.</p>

<p>What you DO need is someone to help edit and critique your student’s essays. Way more important than an admissions counselor. </p>

<p>Spend some time researching schools on your own, then decide if you really need an “expert’s” (and I use that term loosely) advice.</p>

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<p>OP - just want to add in that even if you hire an outside counselor, you still have to work with your son’s high school to an extent. The high school has to send out the transcripts - the GC has to fill out the Secondary School Report and counselor evaluation - letters of recommendation still come from teachers at the school. My point being, if you decide to use someone from the outside for advice - creating a college list, essay help, etc., that’s fine - but don’t do anything to antagonize the hs staff - you will need them during this process.</p>

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<p>I’d also be very careful to find a counselor who is well-experienced at matching schools to the kind of student your son actually is. A counselor that is well versed in helping kids likely to be admitted to selective or highly selective universities may not be a good fit for the kid with a 3.0-3.5 gpa – many times counselors (school or private) seem relatively unfamiliar with schools that are a good match for these students outside of those in the immediate area. (There is a nice current thread on schools in the West for kids in this category.) Similarly, if your child has specialized interests in art, music, or drama, you’ll need to look for someone who really specializes in these areas – a teacher may be able to point you in the direction of some folks who might be particularly helpful.</p>

<p>Being upfront with the counselor about financial constraints is also important. I saw too many parents tell private or school counselors that “money was not important” only for their kids to learn, in April, that OOS tuition at the University of California was really not practical for the family. Really an ouch to have that admit at Berkeley and not be able to use it.</p>

<p>Finally, your kid has to have a “connect” with the counselor. It doesn’t matter how good the counselor is, if your kid doesn’t have the connection, it isn’t likely to be a very successful relationship no matter how good you may think the counselor is. And, it is always helpful if mom and dad remember that a little duct tape across the mouth can be hugely helpful in this process. Our D wouldn’t look at one college because of something my husband rather unthinkingly said; it was probably true as far as it went for him, but she is a very different person with very different strengths and weaknesses than his, and I’m still a little bothered that this option closed unnecessarily quickly.</p>

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<p>SmilieMe: Before our son started looking at colleges, we were invited to a seminar that was really a sell for an admission consulting group. They provided some decent general info, but it really seemed to be geared for people who had the money to send their kids almost anywhere. A lot of what they talked about was how to pull in the most financial aid possible and where how to show less money available. In my opinion, unless you just don’t have the time to do the legwork, nothing beats doing your own searches and using networking tools such as CC.</p>

<p>The journey we have been on this past year in helping our son apply to and decide on a school was well worth the effort, and I can’t see how it could be rewarding if you just paid someone to do what is really a family/personal thing.</p>

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<p>There may be a reason no one in your, or my, area uses private college counselors. Since the market for them is poor there may not even be any to recommend (and you do want someone in tune with your area as well as the elite schools). Also- consider region when bemoaning the lack of attendance at certain highly selective schools. Those schools are off the radar for most elegible students- partly because the state flagships offer so much in midwest and traveling far from home is a con. I can’t tell which state you are from by the “hardest hit” comment- I’m sure more than one state could be it. </p>

<p>Do not be fooled by all of the east coast parents searching tons of schools- they are blessed/cursed with many private schools within a short distance to choose from that are better than their public U’s, but not necessarily better than many midwestern public U’s. </p>

<p>Get the US News… annual booklet on colleges for a starting point. Look at rankings, but not too closely (think gross, not fine differences in them- 50, not 5, point spreads). Look at the data for SAT/ACT scores, class ranks, gpa’s- note the mid 50 %ile ranges that fall near your son’s numbers. Ask your child what he wants to major in. This can change often, but he likely will fit into a science or humanities. Search out schools likely strong in that category- a LAC probably not the choice for a budding engineer…</p>

<p>Visit colleges in your area. Get him familiar with what they are like- similarities and differences. Large/small, city/small town, public/private. After seeing up to a dozen schools he will have a better idea of what is the same all over and which of the differences he likes/dislikes. Then he can better evaluate the literature/web info. You would have to do all of this even if you paid a counselor to give you college choices. Once your son is familiar (hopefully you have already exposed him to some colleges by now) with the concept of a college campus you can plan a vacation trip to see schools in areas far from home that interest him and are finacially and academically feasible.</p>

<p>Most important- make this your son’s search. He needs to be invested in the process. You can help him see beyond the enormity of too many choices but he has to be the one doing the work. It is his life. Handing him the US News… issue and giving him time to read the articles about choosing a college and seeing the lists may be the eyeopener that gets him involved. Many people diss that publication but I found it a useful short but complete compilation at all schools in the US- easier than a huge book to page through. </p>

<p>Finally- remember there is no perfect college and there are many schools that work, even for gifted students. What works best for someone in your region is not the same as the best for someone in a different geographic area. Name recognition and prestige are not everything.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for replying my message, giving advices/tips/suggestions and sharing lessons learned. CC is a great resouce and that’s why I came here in the first place. With a full time job and 3 kids, I am just afraid that researching on our own from the “sea” of information will be a stretch. I am acutally hoping the same experience like Northernwoods, i.e., learning the process the first go-around, with some help, and whatever I have learned will help later when it’s time for my other 2 kids.</p>

<p>Here are more info: 1) I don’t think I need to hire a counselor to tell us the “safety”, “likely” or the “stretch/reach”. We already know what our “safety” is, and my S should have no problem being accepted there. We also have a list of schools (most of them are top selective schools) which are considered as either “likely” or “reach”. 2) S has good relationships with the counselor in HS and all the teachers who have taught him but his current counselor will have to leave in May. 3) I don’t want to pay hefty fees to “package” S into those “reach” schools, however, just think having a piece of advice from “experts” might help him standing out. This might not be a good “analogy”, but might explain what I am looking for: D enjoys drawing. When she recently completed a piece on her own to enter a contest, her art teacher told her that some area of the drawing will look better if “pop-up” more. She added a few more layers of shades, and it did look better. </p>

<p>Thank you all!</p>

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<p>I have a senior and seriously looked into hiring a coach but did not. My child got into Berkeley, UCLA, USC, and Northwestern with merit scholarship. If we used a coach, there might could have been ivy acceptances but we are very happy with the choice of schools.</p>

<p>Reasons not to use a coach…

  1. Child did not like the idea of being packaged…felt ‘fake’
  2. costs, 7k to start and can run up to 12k
  3. time commitment. It would required additional time to work with the coach.</p>

<p>One thing very interesting, people who had bad experiences with coaches will share their story because they weren’t happy with the school choices and felt the money was wasted. However, people who got into top 10 or 15 schools most of the time don’t want others to know that they used professional help… just my observation…</p>

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<p>I think if you want to avoid paying a lot of fees, but you also need good advice, the internet is your best resource. The Ask the Dean forum on this website and the Parents Forum are all good places to go. There are also probably many articles you could google about your specific questions, and also plenty of books out by experts offering advice on getting into top schools that can sometimes be translated into not so top schools. I think one is caleld The Gates or something like that. </p>

<p>The best thing you can really do though if you have questions or if your child has questions is to contact the admissions office of the school in question, or go to the info session if you are able to visit. Each school has it’s own system and way of doing things and the very best you can do is to learn from the source what they’re looking for and try to meet those standards. </p>

<p>I think a lot of parents get freaked out because the top student in their high school got rejected from X, Y, or Z college and they can’t figure out why. Honestly, you have to remember that there are lot of specifics you probably don’t know about that kid, and there are a lot of murky reasons why variuos students get turned down various places, even with perfect test scores (which will not compensate for lack of academic preparation at top schools). Having a college counselor to give you so called “insider advice” won’t really help you avoid those situations because no one knows exactly what hte cause was unless it’s obvious (not good enough grades or preparation, etc.) or they’re in the comittee room. So you’re probably just as well prepared as anyone from using hte internet and taking the time to research. </p>

<p>It’s definitely time consuming, but it seems like you’ve done a lot already by putting togehter your list.</p>

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<p>The costs and benefits are different for each family. Some high schools offer great counseling service; others are crummy and even detrimental. Families have different levels of disposable income and free time. Some enjoy using resources like CC, and others would rather get a root canal. It’s a lot like using an accountant to do your taxes. An educated person can teach himself to do them if he wants to put in the time and effort, but others prefer the ease and reassurance of having professional help.</p>

<p>“costs, 7k to start and can run up to 12k”</p>

<p>Shop around. It can cost just a few hundred dollars to get some essay help, or to have a professional confirm the results of the research you did on your own. A counselor with inside INFORMATION is great, but IMHO any private counselor who is advertising “pull” with admissions officers or offering connections for sale is acting outside the ethical boundaries we should be modeling for our high schoolers. (And it may not even be true.) Also, any counselor who is “packaging” your student in a way that makes them him or her feel “fake” is not good at his or her job.</p>

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<p>Disclaimer…I am an independent college counselor and so you can take my post for what it is worth. I am also a parent of two recent college grads. </p>

<p>First, I do not agree with rjpfl5 in Post #2. An independent college counselor who is not your child’s school counselor should not be calling colleges on behalf of your child. I also do not believe that anyone should hire a counselor in order to get your child admitted. A counselor can’t get your kid into a school that he/she would not otherwise qualify for. We don’t get them in, so to speak. </p>

<p>I agree with others who say that parents and students can surely accomplish the college selection and admissions process on their own and indeed, participating on CC helps a GREAT deal! Nobody NEEDS a counselor necessarily. </p>

<p>However, there are many reasons why people may wish to use a college counselor. For one thing, many school guidance counselors, no matter how good they are, have too many students in their caseload, and there is NO way they can devote the amount of time and individualized attention on every little nitty gritty step of your child’s process. In a typical senior year, I have about 500 pieces of email with just one family, and countless documents and drafts and that kind of time could not be devoted to one kid in a school setting. Further, at many high schools, a GC has other duties besides college counseling, whereas a private counselor is just advising on college admissions. As well, in some cases, a student is applying to specialized degree programs (example: the arts) which involves particular expertise that a typical GC may not have. At some high schools, a GC is used to dealing with a certain set of colleges and your kid may be applying to colleges that are atypical for seniors from that high school and that the GC may be less familiar with or even what is involved in admissions to these types of colleges. </p>

<p>Some parents, for whatever reason, may not have the time or knowledge to adequately guide their child through this process. Perhaps parents both work full time. The college admissions process can take on part time job status! Now, this may not occur to CC members because after all, you guys are all here on CC learning what you can, but many do not know as much as you do about college admissions and maybe do not have the time to explore it as deeply, or are nervous about doing it on their own as navigating this quagmire can feel overwhelming and stressful to many. Having someone with expertise advising them every step of the way on a very individualized basis (which is different than advice on a message board which is not quite as individualized) can ease the stress. Another thing is that while parents may still help their child, many find it helpful to have an objective third party involved, as the student sometimes is more apt to listen to or work calmly with the counselor (it can be hard to work with your own kid sometimes). The parents should still be involved in the process if using a counselor but it helps to have this team approach. </p>

<p>I don’t believe a counselor should package a student. Rather the counselor knows how best to market who the student already is…to be able to demonstrate who the applicant is to the adcoms in the best possible light. That is not the same as packaging or changing who the student is. But many students and parents do not know how best to present themselves on applications, or how to go about essays, resumes, recs, expressing interest in the school, and much else. I see what they come up with on their own and frankly, in some cases, would not have been admitted with how they would have done an application. I also run into MANY people who do not build appropriate or balanced college lists and SO much follows from having the right list for each child. With the wrong list, no matter how good the apps are, the outcome may not be successful. I have had some cases where I had to encourage adding certain schools to the list and those were the ones the student got into and not the schools the family had come up with. I also run into many unrealistic students and parents and it helps to have an objective person who looks at the colleges on the list with a realistic eye and has enough knowledge to assess the college list and its appropriateness. Many parents and students state that it was so helpful to have ongoing support to answer the myriad of questions all along the way, and not just help with every task that was involved. </p>

<p>Is this necessary for every family? Of course not! But it is useful and helpful to many families who have chosen to work with a college counselor. The point isn’t to hire a college counselor so that you can get into a college but more that the college counselor will be a very helpful guide every step of the way in your college selection and admissions process. Like with anything in life, some find it helpful to be advised by someone who has expertise in the field, even if they could research and do it all on their own.</p>

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<p>I cross posted with Hanna above but agree 100% with her points. The independent college counselor should not have any pull with adcoms. The independent counselor does not have to cost the amount that someone else posted or anywhere near that !! I also agree with Hanna that the counselor should not package a student in ways that are fake, but rather should help a student sell to colleges who they truly are and were before they ever met the counselor. Lastly, many families may not have the time or inclination to do the wealth of research needed for college admissions and prefer to hire someone with expertise to advise them on it.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>soozievt: Your input makes a lot of sense. Thank you.</p>

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<p>I think that in most cases, it’s a waste of money to hire a college counselor. The exception to this is the case in which the student and the parents don’t communicate well, and the counselor, as a third party, can serve as an adult with whom the student can talk. But if you already have a good relationship with your son or daughter, you really don’t need a counselor.</p>

<p>These days, the College Board website will run a basic “college match” for free, based on the student’s statistics and general interests. You can take this list and narrow it down using Naviance, available at your school. If your school doesn’t have Naviance, you can get reasonably accurate information about a student’s chances at another website, which I’ll spell out here (so it doesn’t get deleted): my-chances-dot-net. This will give you a reasonable reach-match-safety list.</p>

<p>The most important thing to do is to create a timeline with your student, one that includes some visits junior year (if possible), serious essay writing over the summer (aim for all the common app essays and one or two essays related to colleges on the list). Line up some friends/relatives/teachers willing to give some feedback on essays without re-writing them in any way. The timeline should include asking teachers for letters (ask at the end of junior year, then follow up in September). </p>

<p>My daughter attended a large public high school with one counselor per 500 kids, and she was admitted everywhere, including MIT, where she enrolled. My son’s grades were much lower (3.46 uw), and he’d been sick the spring of his junior year, so he had what they call a “downward trend” – the kiss of death. Still, he was admitted to UC San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, Boston University, Trinity College CT, Willamette, and waitlisted at Emory U. and at Grinnell. All without any help from a counselor.</p>