<p>DTDad, I have a son like that. He insists on working, it makes him feel good, he wants to contribute- always has. There is something there to be admired (can you tell my son is my hero?). Good for your son, and good for you. You have a lot to be proud of.</p>
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One piece of advice that I would add. I would look at all of schools that he is thinking about applying to and see what the requirements are for SAT II tests. My D is applying to engineering programs and the ones that she is considering that require SAT II, they require two SAT II's, one Math and one Science. I would consider him only taking two SAT II's, pick whatever subject (bio or chem) he thinks that he would do better in.
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<p>This is good advice, except our experience was that schools wanted chem or physics, not bio.</p>
<p>Calmom, </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your D's experience!</p>
<p>Sybbie,
Thank you for the specific information, this place is just great due to specifics like that, much appreciated!</p>
<p>Kelsmom,</p>
<p>No he hasn't but we will now :)</p>
<p>JMMom,
Yes, we were trying to have a varied list from the aid side so once we understand his SAT/ACT situation better on 11/20 he will already have a list of schools that fit that our financial profile. </p>
<p>He thinks he is certain about Chem Engineering but heck he's 17, the U of Chicago idea came up as he thought about "Life of the Mind" in a university that was doing serious work in chemistry, receiving major funding from the national science foundation. I agree on the 3/2 programs he is a "best friend" kid who forms few but deep relationsips and would likley be the one who didn't want to leave. </p>
<p>The state school is a fine Big 10 school, good programs and great student body. </p>
<p>One final note, you are right about the broad range of size, location, atmosphers and other factors. I'm going to ask him some more probing questions this week and see if he can better define his prefrences. Once I get more detail I will post. </p>
<p>Thanks for your help.</p>
<p>Doubleplay,</p>
<p>Yes I can tell and you should be proud, I am! I once posted that school was just icing on the cake and it's true, I only wish he could stay home a few more years.</p>
<p>dtdad,
just a reminder to read the merit aid threads that are here on cc if you haven't already. they can be a big help in the search for merit aid. some students have found it helpful to apply to 10 to 14 or more schools if they are seeking significant merit aid. you are trying to find the right fit for academics, etc. and ALSO a fit that includes merit aid. you'll need to soon do the css profile followed by the fafsa. there are helpful threads also on cc about the financial aid process and the different FA methodologies are explained: institutional, federal, and consensus. come spring, you and son will be comparing FA packages from multiple schools. a couple more suggestions: stay on top of the admissions deadlines and the deadlines for scholarships. questions to ask...........are separate scholarship applications required and what are those deadlines? also......honors colleges......is a separate application required for admission into the honors college?
a few more schools (engineering) to check into...........univ. of missouri - rolla, colorado school of mines and technology, south dakota school of mines, univ. of tulsa</p>
<p>Did anyone suggest Ivies?... I mean, certainly they're reaches, but tell your son to go for it.</p>
<p>DTdad, From your disclosure that your EFC is "well above" COA of state U I made the comment about your high income. </p>
<p>From money point of view, working during HS is one of the worst mistakes. Not only because your saving could reduce your need based aid, the lower GPA and/or possible low standard test scores could mean missing some huge merit aids. From this point of view, since your family does not need the money now and your are seeking merit aids, the better decision could have been not work but spent more time to get a 4.0 GPA.</p>
<p>If you argue that working experience is valuabe etc, why couldn't your son do volenteering work as part of E/C. Our EFC is about 1/2 of COA of State U and my DD spent many hours helping others without pay. </p>
<p>Why am I writting these? May be because I am jealous of all these super nice responses you got here. Not one really says any nice thing about my DD when I was asking for school suggestions.</p>
<p>Dad II. Well I congratulate you on your honesty. How's that?</p>
<p>Condor & Charlie thanks for the advice.</p>
<p>DadII, </p>
<p>I understand why you made the high income statement, I was just clarifying that while our EFC was well above the in-state cost of OSU (our in-state) we are by no means wealthy. Regarding your POV on working in school I can understand how you might feel that way even though I disagree but I'm not here to argue anything, I came looking for advice. </p>
<p>I'm trying to find a way to say this without sounding like we don't value grades because we do, just not at the expense of a balanced, rich highschool experience. I encouraged my S to have a balanced lifestyle and in my opinion School, Work, Play are all parts of a balanced lifestyle. Once he gets into school no one will remember if he had a 3.85 or a 4.0 in HS (Edit: He has friends with 4.0's and much less demanding classes, they managed their GPA's by taking easier classes). As I mentioned in my previous post, he worked on Friday PM, Saturday, Holidays and every now and then a few hours during the week. Prior to the Sat a.m. SAT situation work never caused him to suffer in school. There are plenty of things we could have done that we didn't, now we deal with today and the future. </p>
<p>I feel I started this thread in a humble and honest manner admiting my mistakes and shortcommings. Your assessment of our(my) mistakes does nothing to advance my S's current objective and that's all I'm concerned with at this point. I hope this post does not come off as hostile or defensive because that's not my intent. I just don't have time or desire to participate in could have, would have, might have, should have, we have too much to get done by Dec 1 ;)</p>
<p>If you have any advice about the path <em>forward</em> I'm all ears </p>
<p>I'm sorry you didn't get the same type of responses, I went and read about your D and she seems like quite an accomplished young lady, I'm sure she will get the merit support she deserves.</p>
<p>DTDad,</p>
<p>As much as I admire Univ. of Chicago and the 'life of the mind', I'd be leery about U of C if he is serious about the possibility of chemical engineering rather than chemistry. Schools such as Rice, Vanderbilt, Washington U-St. Louis offer both schools of engineering and fine schools of arts/sciences or natural sciences if he changes his mind and wants to switch away from engineering.</p>
<p>Midmo,</p>
<p>Thank you for the thoughts on UofChicago. The one thing his response to the school made me realize is he needs to not go to a Eng only school (Rose_Hullman ect..)</p>
<p>It's amazing how things impact kids, watching the Northwestern DVD also got him excited, more schools should send that type of media.</p>
<p>DT, If you're opening the floodgates of choice and if engineering isn't a hard and fast requirement, then I'd suggest that your son take a look at some of the excellent small liberal arts colleges in the Northeast. His profile -- high achieving URM, music, sports, leadership-- would make him a person of interest to just about every LAC in the country including the most selective. </p>
<p>I went to a mega-sized State University and received an excellent education but my son's experience at a rigorous LAC was off the charts positive -- academically, socially, intellectually -- and I have no doubt that it will continue to serve him in graduate school and beyond. </p>
<p>Student satisfaction is insanely good. Small classes, accessible nurturing teaching professors, tight knit community. Not for everyone, of course, but worth having a look. I would start with Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Bowdoin, Middlebury. If this style of education is appealing, then there are others in various ranges of selectivity.</p>
<p>DTDad,</p>
<p>If your son has a greater interest in non-engineering subjects than many other engineering-types, at some point he should inquire about the flexibility of the engineering curriculum. Some schools discourage double majors, or adding a non-technical minor, while others do not discourage it at all. (Vanderbilt, as one example, considers it a selling point of its program that students are encouraged to take a fair number of courses outside of engineering, and many of their engr. students have double majors or minors outside of engineering.) The ability to dabble in other subjects depends on the student, of course, and also the particular sub-field of engineering. (Chem. E may be the least flexible.)</p>
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<p>DadII,</p>
<p>My son's gpa took a bit of a hit due to his very extensive out of class activities, including a job, and running a district-wide aerospace/engineering program (many hours, all year long). gpa was still high, but not a 4.0. Perhaps it would have hurt him with some of the schools your daughter is applying to, but he had very good success with acceptances, and landed a 40K/yr merit award to a top-20 school. gpa is important, but if there are other aspects of the application that make a student stand out, it is not all-important.</p>
<p>DTDad -- I just want to say that my kids worked during high school and college as well -- my observation with my son is that his grades and overall attitude improved when he started working; I think it led him to be more disciplined in the way he allocated his time as well as motivating him toward college. I think both my kids ended up reaping the benefits of significant work experience at the college level when it came to internships and employment leading to future career opportunities as well. </p>
<p>Finally, colleges like to see an employment history -- they value that just as much as any other EC -- and with your son's athletic participation it is obvious that he has good EC's as well. </p>
<p>Some parents obsess over grades and test scores. I allowed my d to make choices that really hurt her high school record - for example, she never took any high school math beyond advanced algebra, in part because she opted for study abroad her junior year. At the end of the college admissions season I saw my d. admitted to U. of Chicago over students whose parents reported much, much higher GPA's & test scores... I remember one kid whose top choice was Chicago, and I felt kind of bad, knowing that my d. was turning her spot down .... but the point is, in the end, it's not just a matter of GPA and/or test scores. </p>
<p>Your son sounds like a very well-rounded and capable young man, who will do well wherever he ends up for college. </p>
<p>I think DadII comes from a different cultural background and that is reflected in his comments. But I personally feel that you have done the right thing as a a parent to support your son in the choices he has made. Your son will have many good choices in the spring -- you are right to be looking for option based on what your son now has to offer. If his test scores improve, that will put him in a slightly better position for admissions and merit aid, particularly with respect to some merit scholarships that are very numbers-based. But overall, he will be the same kid, and the college admissions decisions are going to be made based on his whole record, not some last minute senior year maneuvering for better numbers.</p>
<p>
I think if you look back at the posts, most people have said nice things about your DD -- as I recall, we keep telling you to accept her for what she is and stop hounding her over test scores. We have also told you to be realistic -- as I recall your d. is aiming for colleges that are extremely competitive and cannot be counted on for merit aid. That is not a matter of being "nice" or not -- it is a matter of simply being objective. </p>
<p>You have posted questions along the line of, "how can I make my daughter study more for her tests?" -- whereas DTDad is not asking us to help change his son -- he simply gave us a description and asked for suggestions as to where the son might fit in terms of college admissions and financial aid or merit aid.</p>
<p>Quick post then I have to catch a plane. </p>
<p>DadII,</p>
<p>I went back and looked at my post and think I made a mistake which might have lead to your feedback on money. Our EFC is higher than tuition not the total with room/board. </p>
<p>Second, I'm not sure if this is the norm but at my S's school you must have a 95 avg for an "A" in a class. </p>
<p>Here is the grading policy from the handbook.<br>
100 - 95...................... A.......................... 4.00................................ 4.00 - 3.88
94 - 93........................ A-......................... 3.75................................ 3.87 - 3.50
92 - 90........................ B+........................ 3.25................................ 3.49 - 3.13
89 - 86........................ B.......................... 3.00................................ 3.12 - 2.88
85 - 83........................ B-......................... 2.75................................ 2.87 - 2.50
82 - 80........................ C+........................ 2.25................................ 2.49 - 2.13
79 - 74........................ C.......................... 2.00................................ 2.12 - 1.88
73 - 70........................ C-......................... 1.75................................ 1.87 - 1.50</p>
<p>Is this the norm?</p>
<p>^^^That is the same killer scale my son's school used. It was changed this year (too late for him) to be more in line with the rest of the country.</p>
<p>Does your son's high school rank? The school will generally send a description of its grading policy along with the transcript to the colleges, and the college ad com will look at your son's grades in comparison with others at his school. So the real issue is not how high the GPA is, but how it compares with others. (My d. had about a 3.85 unweighted -but she was among the top 4 or 5 kids in her class - a kid who ranked slightly above her got into a bunch of Ivies).</p>
<p>Our schools used to do the 94-100=A; etc. grading scale. They converted over to a ten point scale to be comparable with other regions. I noticed, however, that grades did not come any easier. While in the past, extra credit and other grade-bumping was common, after the new grading scale, it became rare. I believe that teachers ended up giving out the same numbers of A's, B's, etc. under both scales.</p>
<p>DTDad -
That is a tough scale and your son's guidance counselor should be sure to spell that out when sending the transcript - I believe many colleges will recalculate his gpa to a standard scale, or at least take note of that. I too am enjoying your quiet pride and the earnest responses on this thread - this is what it CC should be about. Best of luck to your son.</p>
<p>I second mythmom's suggestion of Swarthmore for the reasons she states. And if there something about the U of Chicago that attracts your son, Swarthmore also is known for an intellectual atmosphere.</p>
<p>The</a> Associated Press: Liberal Arts Schools Embrace Engineering
Department</a> of Engineering - Why Swarthmore Engineering</p>