Advised to Repost Here. Expectations

Parents Forum
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<p>This is why I am addicted to CC. It gives me hope for humanity. It never ceases to amaze me how most people here (on CC) are willing to spend so much time advising total strangers with what seems to be genuine concern and encouragement. I want to send a cyber hug to all! (I am reiterating? I have the feeling I've said soemthing like this before :p)</p>

<p>Sorry for the interruption, DTDad, I don't have the expertise to give you any advice, but I wish you the best of luck, to you and your son!</p>

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<p>DTDad, I want to make sure I get my two cents in support of your son having a job. I realize many people don't think their kids should have jobs if it isn't absolutely necessary. I happen to think it's a good thing to work.</p>

<p>By the way, your son's stats are wonderful. Don't get too caught up in the stratosphere occupied by so many on CC!</p>

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<p>Clueless's post humbled me. I don't know why I posted what I did, but upon re-reading, it comes across as discouraging and self-absorbed (based on my own kids' experience). Mea culpa. I think I posted on the related thread. I wish your son the best.</p>

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<p>Hi,I've only read thru page 1 so far, but want to mention that, though it is a terrific school, U Chicago does not have an engineering program.</p>

<p>Back to reading!</p>

<p>~mafool (who wants to be reincarnated as a U Chicago student)</p>

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<p>another thought/observation, and this is the advice I gave to our engineering-leaning (but not engineering-positive) son.</p>

<p>It is a lot easier to transfer out of an engineering program after a couple of terms that is is to transfer into an engineering program after a couple of termss. This is because the LA student, even one who is studying sciences, is very unlikely to have taken the courses in the first semesters that pave the way for the rest of the engineering curriculum.</p>

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<p>mafool, that is a great point. Maths and sciences are serial. My soph (fall semester) has already taken 2 sems Bio, 2 sems Physics, 2 sems Chem, 4 sems Calc and a bunch of other courses if you include humanities/social science AP credits plus U courses. Those maths and sciences all serve as prereq's for next semester. Point is, can you imagine trying to make all this up if you suddenly decided after your freshman year, that you wanted to major in engineering?</p>

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<p>DTDad, Your son's hs grading scale is exactly the same one as at our (excellent) public hs. It is a killer scale, as midmo says. And it is not the norm, in my observation, but it is not something to worry about too much, either.</p>

<p>Three points about such a scale:</p>

<p>1) Our hs is not one of the "well known" top publics, but it is a school known among a large number of college admissions offices. Don't know if that is the case with your S's school or not. Although ours is a small school, it has good success in admissions with colleges/universities at all ranges of selectivity. So, when a HYPS/UChicago/Bowdoin/Pomona/Vanderbilt/MIT etc. receives an application from our hs, they know the history of previous acceptees from the school, and that makes a difference. If your school has such a track record, that will help a lot when schools are evaluating your son's GPA.</p>

<p>2) Our school's transcripts report GPA on the 0-100 point scale, not the 4.0 scale. So, a 93.85 (such as my S had unweighted) stands a little bit more on its merits than if it had been converted to a letter grade and then a 4.0GPA, I think. Our school also weights and so, even with 4 APs only but almost all other courses Honors, DS' weighted GPA was 122.~ and that is another factor that they look at.</p>

<p>3) I've saved the key point for last. The High School profile, if done well, really takes care of these differences. It will outline what is required for an A at this hs. It should also give information on % distribution of grades (a college will look differently, all other things being equal, at an A student where 70% of the hs class are also A students vs. one where 10-15% are A students. In other words, they know grade inflation when they see it.</p>

<p>Our hs shares the High School Profile with students and parents in Junior year, so we had an idea of what it looks like. Have you seen your school's profile?</p>

<p>If they don't have one or it is not an effective one, I believe there are parents here on cc who have had to handle that concern for their kids' schools and could weigh in if it would help (curmudgeon, maybe? lderochi?)</p>

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<p>mafool, I was just coming here to post the very same thing. After my S's freshman year, he was on track to major in ChemE, Material Science E, Bio-Med E, Chemistry or another pre-med track. He thought long and hard which major to pursue.</p>

<p>Something that my D considered was that she wanted to apply only to ABET accredited schools. She wants to be a working engineer (rather than go directly to graduate school) and she was advised to look at ABET schools. I'm sure that others have opinions about this but it's what she wanted.</p>

<p>BTW, Rose-Hulman is a math, engineering and science college. It offers a few majors outside of engineering. Just thought that I would mentioned it.</p>

<p>Your S have lots of great options. The only problem is going to be to narrow his list down to a feasable number to apply to before Jan 1. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Update:</p>

<p>No change in SAT, (10points)
SAT Subject Test 12/1
ACT Test 12/8</p>

<p>With his SAT likley to drop a few schools (Harvard, MIT) but that's ok now he can focus his efforts on some more likley schools. </p>

<p>(UNLESS) he gets a crazy good ACT :)</p>

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<p>Rice is good and friendly, and still a possibility with his current stats. :)</p>

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<p>DTDad, a word of encouragement. </p>

<p>My DD's SAT I was also embarrasingly low and then she took ACT. She got an acceptable score on the very first try. Please make sure your son reads about the science session. It has little to do with real science but more on test method. </p>

<p>Mt DD read a practice book for a couple hours before the test and bring up her science score by 2 points. </p>

<p>If you could still change, try to go for Math IIC and Physics for SAT II. the curves are very generous. My D did not even finish the Math IIc test and she got an 800 without ANY study.</p>

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<p>Promised Update:
ACT -30
SAT II Chem 730, Bio 720, Math II 680</p>

<p>He is starting to see the potential. </p>

<p>Thanks for the advice to try the ACT ....</p>

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<p>Such good news! While there is NEVER a guarantee, it seems your son has a great shot at some excellent schools. Make sure he applies to a variety of schools (reach, match, safety) with merit and/or good financial aid opportunities. Congratulations to your son ... and to you, for helping him to realize his potential.</p>

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<p>Kelsmom,</p>

<p>Thanks, yes we know they are not the kind of "blow away" scores that would guarantee anything but they are in the ball park for lots of schools so we are casting a wide net. </p>

<p>The goals remains the same, "options" </p>

<p>Thanks to all the folks who have been so supportive over the last few months, your insights and advice is very much appreciated!!</p>

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<p>Actually, my caution about applying to a variety of schools was not because I don't think his scores are good enough for the top schools. I am cautioning you simply because NO ONE --- even the 36 ACT kid --- is guaranteed admission to the reach schools (and merit/financial aid opportunities vary from school to school). It's not that I don't think he has a great chance at a great school. I just add my caution after reading too many posts from too many kids/parents who were sure their great stats "guaranteed" them a spot. It's not like death & taxes. There are NO guarantees in the admissions game!</p>

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<p>I would not drop the most competitive colleges from your list based on those scores. Yes, they would put him in the bottom quartile if admitted, but AA males with an interest in science and engineering and the academic ability to make it through these colleges are hard to find. </p>

<p>There is another consideration. IF he were to go to such a top end place and major in science or engineering, he would be in class with a group of students who have, on average, better preparation coming in, and perhaps more talent. So he would have to drop most of his extracurriculars, and his working (many engineering students at these colleges find they have no choice but to do this anyway). So he may remain a good candidate, and he may get in, but given the lifestyle he may have to adopt, he might not want to go there.</p>

<p>I think he can consider Case a safety, don't know about their financial aid. </p>

<p>There is a good chance that most of the Ivies will have dropped loans from their aid packages. H and P are already in. Even Penn, which has a low endowment per student, is being aggressive on aid. Dartmouth has much more money relative to its size, and probably will follow suit. Yale seems committed to doing something- details to follow in January. </p>

<p>In the applications make sure that he and his counselor document the amount of time he spends working. I suspect this is common among kids whose parents do not have college degrees but who earn incomes comparable to those with such education. Hard work pays off, and it would probably be impossible in your household for that message not to come through. It has almost certainly reduced his gpa and lowered his test scores, but the colleges should know about it.</p>

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<p>DTDad:</p>

<p>Congrats to your son on upping his scores. I second Afan's comments about not dropping highly selective schools from his list. I also want to suggest that your son may discover interests other than engineering once he is in college, so he should include colleges with good math and science programs besides engineering.</p>

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<p>Marite and Afan thank you again for the feedback, I'm taking notes and listening to all the good advice. </p>

<p>Kelsmom, special note. </p>

<p>I took your original comments exactly as you describe them in your second post. My saying "thanks" was sincere and I apologize if it didn't sound that way. I knew you meant that while his recent scores put him in the "possible" category even if perfect none put him (or anyone else) in the "sure thing" category when dealing with the schools in question. </p>

<p>I really did mean, thank you :)</p>

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<p>I want to add a thought on the fact that your son might not be as prepared as other students. This is true --- but if he understands that, he can be in the right frame of mind to excel, despite this fact. A young man I know was admitted to Wesleyan with a 29 ACT (highest after several sittings), from a mediocre public high school. He was definitely on the lower end of the Wes admit pool. He was not as prepared as the majority of his peers when he arrived on campus. While he has had to work hard ... he is doing quite well. His writing, in particular, has improved tremendously. He has to work very hard in math & science courses, but he holds his own just fine. He has a part time job, runs cross country, and swims on the swim team. </p>

<p>In other words, he is overcoming the odds AND having a great college experience. Your son will, too!</p>

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<p>More perpective, and, of course, all mileages may vary:</p>

<p>S graduated from a pretty average school. Had 7 AP's though, 4's and 5's, with 5's for all science and math. ACT: 35.</p>

<p>He is in a demanding engineering program now as a sophomore. Absolutley no time for athletic involvement beyond IM sports; he should work, but time does not permit; his time with his one and only other EC is very spotty. Also no time for significant partying or clubbing ("Mom, engineering school is good for the budget"). This is not the "college experience" we refer to around here, but it is typical of his program at his school (e.g., 3 of his 4 courses are lab courses)</p>