AEM Ranking drops from 4th to 8th

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>Businessweek just came out with their business school rankings and I was looking at the methodology. It looks like a lot of it is based on surveys from different parties, ranging from employers to students themselves.</p>

<p>What brought us down then, is most likely our "recruiter survey rank" where we are ranked 46th???</p>

<p>What do you guys think is the reasoning behind that..i mean, schools like BYU were ranked really high in this category whereas schools like cornell, MIT, and even penn were ranked relatively low...</p>

<p>Also, why is cornell's academic rank at 26th?</p>

<p>What are your guys' thoughts on this?</p>

<p>Here's a direct link:</p>

<p>The</a> Top Undergraduate Business Programs</p>

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<p>Rankings are worthless. That said, AEM was never a top ten program to begin with.</p>

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<p>Rankings are there to shock and thrill readers into buying a magazine.</p>

<p>Even with their "methodology," looking at the data themselves is pretty telling. Cornell scored 3rd on the student survey, is 2nd in MBA feeder schools, had A+'s in Teaching Quality Grade, Facilities & Service Grade, Job Placement Grade, and yet the "Academic quality rank" is 21? UMich, which got a B, A, and A+ respectively had an "academic quality rank" of 8. If you aren't now fully convinced of the load of bullsh** all of these rankings are, please proceed to smack your head against the wall.</p>

<p>Look at all the dumb things they include, Avg. SAT scores, full time enrollment, "recruiting survey rank," "academic quality index."</p>

<p>If you haven't learned it already, Businessweek and USNWR are in it for a PROFIT. Their rankings mean jack sh**. Choose a college based on how much you like it, not because USNWR decided to put an extra 8% weight on "peer institution survey" causing the school to rise 3 spots.</p>

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<p>the avg starting salary for cornell is low! if its correct</p>

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<p>The BW rankings are easily manipulated by the colleges - they just gotta wine and dine the recruiters. Cal-Haas figured this out a couple of years ago when they jumped over ten spots and into the top 10.</p>

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<p>Hey cayugared,</p>

<p>I'm interested in your rationale behind saying that aem isn't a top 10 program. Are you really saying that there's 10 programs you can name that are better in an undergrad business education and would be more ?</p>

<p>Justcurious as to what you think as it seems like you know.a lot about cornell.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>I'll preface my remarks by saying that I don't think highly of undergraduate business programs in general, nor do I think that there should be a place for an undergraduate business program on Cornell's campus. And even if I was to concede that there should be, it shouldn't be located in a department that has traditionally been strong in agricultural and resource economics. Instead, it should be associated with the Johnson School and possibly the Hotel School.</p>

<p>I should also say that it's my opinion that AEM was never a top ten program -- obviously others will differ. It's their opinion.</p>

<p>And I'll also add that when I was a student at Cornell in the earlier part of this decade, AEM was really seen as a joke of a major. The classes were ridiculously easy, the students were notoriously regarded as the least-serious students on campus, and the professors were known to be hit or miss. This has probably changed somewhat since I graduated. </p>

<p>So I'm a bit biased. But at the same time, I think you know I am a big proponent of Cornell and the education and social environment that it offers it students. So being a somewhat lukewarm business program at a fantastic University that is a great place for a student who is interested in business isn't the worst thing in the world.</p>

<p>But I would say three things warrant the fact that it isn't a top ten undergraduate business school:</p>

<p>1) It's recently accredited and it is very hard for a recently accredited program to become objectively good, and a lot of the reputation benefits that the program gets is due to Cornell, and not anything the program is doing itself. As an employer, I would much often rather hire a Cornell engineer or a Cornell liberal arts student than an AEM student, simply because AEM is less of a known commodity to me.</p>

<p>2) The fact is that most of the faculty aren't business faculty -- they are applied resource and agricultural economists. The AEM program is really a shrewd decision by the Ag school to compete more strongly with the likes of Hotel and Engineering for business-minded students (and their tuition dollars). I'm most concerned about academic quality when it comes to schools, and you can see -- it's ranked 21st.</p>

<p>3) I would probably put Wharton, MIT, UVa, CMU, Michigan, Berkeley, Texas, Indiana, Notre Dame, and UNC ahead of Cornell from a strictly academic point of view.</p>

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<p>Why do you think there is no place for an undergraduate business program at Cornell?</p>

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<p>^ well, a lot of people feel like Business is a worthless major, because it's vocational training, and unlike technical fields, you don't need a Business degree to do Business. Cornell and Penn are the only Ivies to offer undergrad Business, because many top schools don't bother with Business at all. What is the point of teaching something that can be learned with on the job training? </p>

<p>Business seems to involve some basic applied econ principles, I understand that, but there's other stuff i don't see the point of - my boyfriend and I go to NYU, he goes to Stern Business, I'm in CAS Econ. I learn about the economy as whole (macro) individual aspects (micro), we learn policy, theory, some advanced classes can get pretty theoretical actually. Meanwhile, my bf's doing Business Administration and learning that, "Healthy workers are happy workers! Happy workers are productive!" "A profit is revenue minus the costs of production!" Ok, great, how about learning something that's not common sense? But maybe it's just him being lazy and taking easy classes, I don't want to say everyone who does Business Admin is like that. I'm sure in Finance/Accounting they teach you valuable stuff, and that Cornell students work harder or whatever. But this is just my personal take on why so many top colleges don't have a Business program for undergrad, they prefer Liberal Arts to vocational training.</p>

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<p>Businessweek only started doing these undergrad business rankings a few years ago, and they're loosing their credibility year after year. Look at the ratings on the far left side of the table. Cornell has straight A pluses for Teaching Quality, Facilities and Service, and Job Placement, yet we're below UMich and Cal who have B's in their ratings. </p>

<p>Anyone who puts Notre Dame above Wharton must be out of their mind. Look at the recruiter survey rank for the "top 3" schools (which Cornell got very low marks on apparently). Virginia is at 53, Wharton is at 13, and Notre Dame is at 12. If you say you come from Wharton in a room full of recruiters, I'm sure they'll light up more than if you said Notre Dame. Point is, are these recruiters they are surveying really reliable?</p>

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<p>While you all are making very valid points, it's kind of funny that nobody complained about methodology when AEM was ranked 4th. :)</p>

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<p>
[quote]

While you all are making very valid points, it's kind of funny that nobody complained about methodology when AEM was ranked 4th.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Haha, amen.</p>

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<p>There are good and great undergraduate programs in business. Wharton is among the most highly sought after. But AEM is highly respected. The proof of the pudding is how AEM graduates are highly recruited by banks and consulting firms. As with all good things, this year will be a crucial market test, because investment banks are no longer hiring.</p>

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<p>Would you qualify ILR as undergrad business? some of the required classes there are very much so vocational training. Disability studies...HR....</p>

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<p>disability studies isnt part of the ILR curriculum...</p>

<p>and the way the course is structured now it's less technical and closer to anthropology/sociology...</p>

<p>i wouldnt classify ILR as undergrad business (though the earlier ILR curriculum did have courses such as accounting and others to make it more business-like)</p>

<p>ILR is a Social Science...similar to Psychology and Political Science...</p>

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<p>"nor do I think that there should be a place for an undergraduate business program on Cornell's campus. And even if I was to concede that there should be, it shouldn't be located in a department that has traditionally been strong in agricultural and resource economics. Instead, it should be associated with the Johnson School and possibly the Hotel School."</p>

<p>^ This is the feeling of anyone with half a brain a Cornell. Business is taking over every other college at the University-- ILR, PAM, Hotel, AEM, OR. AEM just does it better than the rest of them. The Ag school was once the best Ag School in the US, if not the world. Now, that title probably goes to UC Davis. CALS has become a I-banking and pre-med feeder school, with a bunch of ag/environmental/food science majors mixed in here and there. Getting AEM out of it would be the best thing for both programs. </p>

<p>"when I was a student at Cornell in the earlier part of this decade, AEM was really seen as a joke of a major. The classes were ridiculously easy, the students were notoriously regarded as the least-serious students on campus, and the professors were known to be hit or miss. This has probably changed somewhat since I graduated."</p>

<p>^ This is generally still true, but there are some slight differences. AEM students are a smart bunch, probably the smartest kids in CALS. They generally have easier classes, but every once in a while there's a hard one-- i.e. Finance is notorious, Rich Curtis is the Debbie Nero of the AEM department. The problems is that AEM is such a big major, its culture has become pervasive in the CALS.</p>

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<p>EnviroGuy wins the award for the best post of the year.</p>