<p>The weight of AA depends on the school. A relatively small number of highly qualified URMs (numbering between 1000-2000) exists where SATs and GPAs are among the published averages at the Ivies/MIT/Stanford. A very large percentage of this qualified group are taken by HYPSM, with acceptance rates roughly 3-4 times the published acceptance rates. I would say that a majority of these URM have SAT/GPA within the interquartile range for the schools overall.</p>
<p>This leaves relatively slim pickings among the rest of the elite schools (remaining Ivies, plus public Ivies, LACs, etc.). They have little choice but to dip very deeply into the pool of remaining URMs, where SATs average some 200-300 points below the published medians for the schools.</p>
<p>This was the case at Cornell, where my URM roommate had a combined SAT math/verbal of 980, and I had a 1410 (1982 figure). I had no idea this disparity existed until I met my roommate. Of course, he could not hack the work and ended up flunking out of the Hotel School.</p>
<p>I should also mention that in grad school (Berkeley), I met a number of highly qualified URM engineering students from Morehouse and Spelman Colleges. I concluded from this that a significant number of the elite URM student pool does not end up choosing HYPSM for various reasons.</p>
<p>wait so lets say Im mixed race, brazilian,white,african… whatll that do? I believe the white gets cancelled out on applications though…they dont really offer too many options.</p>
<p>and yes its real. The U of M is very proud of their diversity…TOO proud it seems, so are a lot of the state schools. There is a certain “quota” and there is a real advantage. basically it seems they accomodate minorities by adding to their resumes.
+.2 to GPA, +2 to ACT +200-300 to SAT</p>
<p>but even I think its unfair and Im part of a minority group. I dont want to be let into my college to be a statistic, but if thats why I get in Im not gonna complain, being honest.</p>
<p>well there is soo many different views of this topic. But I thought affirmative action after it got changed was that race can be a factor when determining affirmative action but it can’t be the only factor. Other things come into play besides just race such as economic financial standings. I thought a white person could also receive affirmative action too since race can’t be the only factor. It’s just a lot of the time people that are in poor economic conditions or schools are of minority. Not saying that whites do not fall into this category, its just that you hear this more often than not. </p>
<p>Also isn’t the whole purpose of affirmative action is to give a person who might not of had the money books or supplies due to their finanical standing and or if their school might be a D school a fair look on their application to schools versus another who might go to a A school and is rich and had all the materials they needed. And that the fact might be they could of probably of done just as good as that rich person if given the proper structure and materials needed. (please note this is just an off the head example that I made up) Not saying that a person that is flunking school and than have affirmative action and than boom their into a top notch school. ugh you know what I mean.</p>
<p>also I wasn’t trying to offend anyone, if it came out that way then I am sorry.</p>
<p>To be honest, I don’t even care that much that it helps URMs so much, but it ticks me off that it disadvantages Asians more than Whites.</p>
<p>I think that affirmative action is helpful, but it’s just annoying when people think that URMs get in to top tier schools based SOLELY on that. It’s not true. There are some extremely intelligent URMs out there. I’m not Asian or White, so I don’t know how it feels to be rejected and have someone else taken in my place. If it happened to me, I’d be upset just b/c I had just been rejected, but I’m not gonna knock someone else down b/c I got knocked down.</p>
<p>Another thing is that statistically speaking, African Americans score much lower on the SAT than white and Asian students. So, if you compare a 1980 by an AA student to scores by other AA students, it is probably above the 90th percentile. That score for white students is a much lower percentile. Now, should a student of a certain race be compared to only students of his or her race? I don’t think so, but if that’s what’s happening, then a 1980 for an AA student may very well equal a 2200 for a white student.</p>
<p><a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat_percentile_ranks_2008_cr_m_w_gender_ethnic_groups.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board;
<p>91st percentile for CR for African Americans: 575
90.5th percentile for CR for White students: 725</p>
<p>That’s a pretty significant difference for essentially the same percentile rank. I could type up more comparisons, but it’s not really important and the PDF file is pretty clear.</p>
<p>yeah I totally agree with you BeautifulNerd219</p>
<p>True story here: Two kids from my school (black male and Asian female) applied to this unbelievably selective program at Penn. The number of acceptances totals something like 50 students. Anyway, the girl managed a 4.7 GPA (her taking of a second language actually dropped her GPA). She also pulled off a 2400, after taking it once, receiving a 2390, and retaking. She also led the varsity cheer team and was involved in a host of other things. Conversely, the black male had a 4.3 and 2150. He had a good list of ECs, but it didn’t compare to the girls. Guess who got in.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to come off as racist, but it does become unfair, even to URMs who happen to be slightly better represented than other URMs.</p>
<p>yeah well I see your point but I mean its kind of hard to judge people in those circumstances. I have know and heard people that that has happened to but they were both white. I mean you just can’t assume that person got in just because they are a URM. and it comes back to the point that BeautifulNerd219 was saying previously. I don’t know what exactly admissions are looking for so it’s hard to say. Cause I know admissions people from Harvard, Yale, and etc tell people constantly that they don’t always admit people with the highest SAT scores. Again it’s hard to judge from that story because we don’t know the full story of their applications. Cause financial standing of an individual is a big part of a application too. Also their grades in certain subjects. Like let’s say they were both applying to the Wharton school at Penn. They they would look heavily on the grades that they got in their math classes and what math courses they took. Maybe one received a better grade than the the other. I don’t know I’m just saying I’m pretty sure it’s more than just the URM factor.
Thanks for sharing the story though.</p>
<p>by the way I keep seeing people post (10 char) and bump what does that mean?</p>
<p>Dunno about 10 char, but a “bump” is when you post on your own forum to get it “bumped” to the top of this list, therefore making it more accessible.</p>
<p>Something else I can tell you about the girl, though, is that she never got a B in her life. Ever. Not just for a final grade, but on tests, quizzes, essays, labs, etc. This girl has never experienced an 89 (crazy, I know). As for the guy, I’m positive that he didn’t have anything out of this world on his transcript, just some common leadership/fundraising stuff. You’re totally right that AA is by no means the only reason for this happenstance, but I have a feeling it was at least a small factor.</p>
<p>yeah I see what you are saying. To tell you the truth I don’t know what to say about that one. But I’ve had something like that at my school and they were both white. But I don’t want to be to biased on the subject and play the asian girl out. But I do have a question for you. Did you know these two people personally of is this what you heard from people from your school? Again another big thing could be the financial standing which comes into play on how affirmative action is suppose to operate giving those who are in bad financial standing a boost (i’m not typing up the whole thing about that again, I’m kindof tired) and looked evenly. But race could of been a factor like you said.</p>
<p>By the way how to apply or qualify for affirmative action. Is i just implied when you apply to a college if you apply for financial aid or something.</p>
<p>I always hate saying this because it gives the absolute worst impression, but I come from a very rich town. Both kids have no financial problems whatsoever. In fact, both of them drive BMWs (exactly the reason I hate talking about my town’s affluence). And yeah, I know both of them personally. This isn’t to play up the differences in their applications, it’s just a legitimate analysis of their character. The girl is really nice, not quiet but not loud, and generally a cool person. The guy, on the other hand, is somewhat of a creepy figure. He likes to follow people around, especially those considered “popular”. He’s seen as kinda nerdy, so I guess he views this as a what to find his way into parties and such. His stalking actually got really bad one particular time. A really close friend of mine once had nightmares about this kid showing up in his room at night.</p>
<p>Again, I’m not embellishing for my point’s sake. These are the actual impressions I (and several other) get from these two.</p>
<p>It exists. No matter how they try to sugar coat it. </p>
<p>It’s a BS system based on the worst possible premises, where the criteria for qualification lies in the color of a person’s skin alone. No consideration of economic status or personal circumstances. </p>
<p>It takes away from everything that these kids have worked for, and they are constantly placed under the shadow of “he/she got in only because of AA” </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/728899-another-perspective-affirmative-action.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/728899-another-perspective-affirmative-action.html</a></p>
<p>Dbate, a fellow Yale admit in his recent thread sums up his feelings on the issue perfectly. He has much better stats than me all across the board, and I’m an ORM. :)</p>
<p>o well the reason I asked was there would be a big difference if you actually knew the person and they told you this stats verses what you heard floating around the school. You can agree that what you hear directly from them would be more legit. Anyways that is kind of creepy. I had someone like that at my school. He knew everyone’s personal school schedule without you even telling him and then he would put it on an microsoft excel sheet. Yeah and I was wondering about the view you had on that person, but that is still creepy.
I really don’t know what to say that’s a hard one. Do you know which of the Penn schools they applied to, or were they applying to Penn State? What school did your friend go to instead?</p>
<p>o and why are asians not considered URMs? is it because there are so many of them.</p>
<p>No, it was Penn, or UPenn, or whatever people officially call it. Haha I’m not sure about the school, but its an engineering program that only admits 50 kids from something like 8000 per year. Asians still are considered URMs, they are just more represented nationwide than blacks. And the girl is gonna be going to Berkeley in the fall, so it’s not a huge drop off for her. Plus, she gets to go to California, which is a huge step up from the 3 weeks of rain we’ve had in Jersey.</p>
<p>woah I wouldn’t go that far with that. You didn’t have to say all of that. I mean you need to read the other threads on this forum. I think BeautifulNerd’s sum some of it pretty well. But I’m not going to say too much more cause you seem pretty set in your belief and it would be kinof hard to try to change your belief. I mean sadly there are going to be people who do just admit a person due to race, the system isn’t perfect but nothing really is. </p>
<p>But anyone can say what they want to say but you shouldn’t accuse a person right of the bat that the ONLY reason they got into a school was they were black or every minority gets affirmative action and gets into their dream school. Many work their butts off to get to the place they are today and I think you should have respect for that!</p>
<p>yeah that is true about asians. Well like you said not a far drop if anything she could always transfer if she wanted to. I think the school you are taking about is the school of engineering and applied science. That’s the one I wanted to apply to, awww man now I’m kind of nervous. They only admit 50 students! That’s crazy!</p>
<p>Kind of seems like my entry point into the discussion was kind of lost, but I wonder if there are people here who don’t mind AA for advantaging URMs but DO mind it for disadvantaging Asians? Personally I see this occur a lot at my high school, where there are lots of top Asian and White applicants, and the top White students seem to go on to attend more prestigious universities.</p>