Affirmative Action: Unfair Advantage or Deserved Provision?

Student Lounge African-American Students
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<p>“^ they know financial information before-hand. They can learn during interviews/essays.”</p>

<p>Any proof that need blind schools factor that in, hmm??? </p>

<p>You do know what the definition of need blind is, right? Here it is, taken from Claremont Mckenna’s website: Need-Blind Admission policy simply means that a family’s financial resources will not influence a student’s admission decision. This policy encourages students from all socioeconomic backgrounds to apply to CMC since their admission decision is based solely on their academic record.</p>

<p>So yes, the information in the interviews or essays could show an applicant’s perseverance, drive, or whatever. But just because they put in “I’m poor” somewhere, does not mean for sure that the admissions officer will be like, “oh look this kid is poor, let’s automatically give a boost to them!”. Where’s the proof that that happens?</p>

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<p>[Behind</a> The Scenes: How Do You Get Into Amherst? : NPR](<a href=“Behind The Scenes: How Do You Get Into Amherst? : NPR”>Behind The Scenes: How Do You Get Into Amherst? : NPR)</p>

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<p>Did you even listen to it? It clearly says that Amherst is “need affirmative”, not “need blind”. And in that case, socioeconomic status clearly does affect a person’s opportunities and standard of life. A kid living on a say, 40K a year household income for example, will clearly have greater disadvantages than the kid in a 150k a year household income.</p>

<p>Remember, I was responding to the poster who said that need plays a role in schools like Harvard and Princeton, schools which are need blind.</p>

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<p>I had no idea you know that poster personally, which would have to be the case since you know everything he’s gone through.</p>

<p>Bad argument.</p>

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<p>Like I said, he’s equating his disability to that of racial discrimination. Well I face both, so wouldn’t that be twice as much?</p>

<p>He’s making sweeping generalizations that he’s been through more than URMs that benefit from AA. seems like it’s okay for myself to make those kind of comments, too.</p>

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<p>CPU, I do understand what you’re saying, and we all have to be careful of those generalizations. Where we get into trouble is saying “I’m suffering more than you.” Those are judgments, and without going into specific evidence on all sides, it’s all just a guessing game. Better to explain our own situations and then ask how they measure up to others. </p>

<p>By the way, I don’t know what your disability is (and I’m not asking), but I am sorry to hear about it.</p>

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<p>Jazzpark makes a good point and I’m sorry as well. But do you really think it’s fair to say the color of your skin is as big of a “problem” as a disability?</p>

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<p>i apologize as well, i didn’t mean to make it into a contest of “who has it worse.” i hate those.</p>

<p>it’s fine, no sorries allowed :slight_smile: it’s more of a motivator than anything.</p>

<p>nuclearpenguins-- since i have both, i’d say they are equal (i say equal loosely). again, i don’t want to get into a “what’s worse” argument, because they’re both negatives. but you can’t say what’s worse. who says having a disability is worse than being the victim of covert and overt discrimination? and vice versa? from personal experience, the color of my skin has always been a bigger “problem” than my disability (mainly because you can’t outwardly see/observe it, like you could say with someone who has a speech impediment or who has a rosacea.)</p>

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<p>"This is 2011, and we shouldn’t rest on our slavery laurels. Jews don’t rest on what happened during the Holocaust, and Chinese don’t rest on what happened to them in the 19th century. Both of the latter occurred more recently than slavery, so it’s time to wake up and move into the 21st century. "</p>

<p>Both what happened to the Jews in the 1940s and to the Chinese in the 1900s are unanalogous to American slavery in any case. Jews were hunted down and murdered for at most a few years in Europe while black Americans were enslaved and in the process denied even the most meagre of societal benefits in America for around 200 years. </p>

<p>Many Jews today still speak Hebrew, practice Bar Mitzvah and make the trek to Israel with wide all-knowing smiles adorning Gucci sunglasses.</p>

<p>Blacks in America today speak English in similar Southern style as many of their former slavemasters, practice forced Christianity in mindless droves, and cannot pinpoint at all what connection they have to Africa in general beyond skin color.</p>

<p>In general, the events of the Holocaust versus American slavery, and the damage that has been wrought comparatively between the two upon blacks and Jews respectively is incomparable. Slavery has debatably inspired a far greater and longer lasting deleterious effect on black Americans than the Holocaust did on Jews with regards important variables like culture, and retifications like affirmative action accordingly reflect this line of reasoning.</p>

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<p>That’s part of the religion.</p>

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<p>Very ignorant thing to say. If Jews are successful in life, it’s only because of their strong commitment to education. Maybe we should learn something from them instead of making envious remarks.</p>

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<p>Well, if murder only happened a “few” years, then it wasn’t such a big deal. Never mind that Holocaust victims exist today.</p>

<p>What does that have to do with generations succeeding today? What you’re arguing is that slavery is in our “genes” and that we’ll never be anything but slaves, regardless of how much time passes. You’ve got a wonderful argument for a racist: Blacks have got bad genes and the fact of our being black will always hold us down. </p>

<p>Do you ever see how ridiculous your argument is? You’re saying that we’re “ingrained” as slaves. Everyone else gets ahead by working hard, but we just can’t do that.</p>

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<p>I think regardless of law or moral issues, colleges and universities will continue to give a “boost” to under represented minorities. The reason for this doesn’t lie in legal or moral obligations, but rather for education purposes.</p>

<p>It is undeniable that every institution reserves the right to admit a student body which they believe will be collectively conducive to a proper learning environment. By the same token, institutions will be more inclined to accept URMs simply because they will create a more diverse student body, which will ultimately lead to an enriching college experience for everyone involved. </p>

<p>It is simply a matter of providing the best education experience they can. No college or university wants a graduating class of people of the same race. They want a mixed bag of all races and nationalities, because students will not gain a cultural experience by attending a college with a uniform nationality or race. </p>

<p>Also, let’s not forget that universities LOVE to brag about their diversity and varied student populous…</p>

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[quote]
“Very ignorant thing to say. If Jews are successful in life, it’s only because of their strong commitment to education. Maybe we should learn something from them instead of making envious remarks.”</p>

<p>I don’t disagree with you but my point in bringing up the examples was to juxtapose the magnitude of cultural degeneration that the two atrocities have caused to the groups in question respectively. That is, while the Holocaust has barely inflcted any long-lasting effects on Jewish race and culture, the exact opposite can be said of slavery with regards to African-American. Accordingly I surmise this is the case not only because of the length of slavery, but because of the differing nature in which it was carried out.</p>

<p>“Well, if murder only happened a “few” years, then it wasn’t such a big deal. Never mind that Holocaust victims exist today.”</p>

<p>I never said or implied murder during the Holocaust wasn’t a big deal; only that its relatively short length makes it so it isn’t as comparable to slavery as you might think.</p>

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<p>I never made this argument. The argument my posts have generally put forth is that slavery has left a deleteriously long-lasting effect on slaves and that affirmative action, among other initiatives, is in my opinion a fine and legal way for the government to make amends.</p>

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<p>To deny that slavery hasn’t had a profound–even foundational–effect on African-Americans identity, culture and mannerisms is equable to denying Jesus didn’t have ab effect on Christianity.</p>

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<p>^^^
Keile: What do you think…about 200 years of AA, 40 acres and a mule enough to make up for “foundational” effects on African Americans?</p>

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<p>Each generalization you make is more ludicrous and insulting. The fact that the Holocaust occurred more recently makes it MORE relevant in the lives of people today than something that happened generations ago. Go talk to some kid whose grandparents were in the Holocaust and see how insignificant the inhumanity was to their family.</p>

<p>Nobody enslaved you, your parents, or your grandparents. You are arguing that blacks do not have the emotional or intellectual ability to live their own lives. If blacks are so weak, then no amount of AA is ever going to change things.</p>

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<p>I didn’t read the whole thing cause I’m just chiming in here from the original post,</p>

<p>But personally, I don’t see anything wrong about AA. Its perfectly fine too me. I mean, what is really meant by “Deserved”</p>

<p>Most people that get accepted to these big colleges have some kind of hook or advantage right? I mean being able to pay all of the tuition, being a legacy, smart, etc. </p>

<p>But anyway, </p>

<p>I think AA is basically telling those admission officers “HEy, you need diversity…this is AMERICA” lol.(doesn’t that kind of contradict itself)</p>

<p>without affirmative action, there would be a even less portion of blacks at these schools. without affirmative action…WE WONT HAVE NO BARACK OBAMA lol. </p>

<p>but yea,
I personally don’t mind that I get into the school cause I’m black. Because at the end of the day, its all politics and what you could accomplish at the end of you life. I don’t need to worry about if my position was deserved or not, I mean there not going to accept anyone who is not qualified, its just that they always make it harder for blacks to get in than whites. So if I get a little break in my black life for being black…I’m going to take it</p>

<p>…=)</p>

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<p>Being “smart” sure is an unfair hook, ain’t it? Real good we got AA so we can git us some diversity in college.</p>

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Ahhhh… one of the benefits of AA…no need to know what “Deserved” means.

Quality post. Please…get a little break in your black life for being black…you’ve obviously earned it.</p>

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<p>^^ </p>

<p>Sarcasim…nice…lol</p>

<p>But being serious,
Why complain about something that is benefiting you…</p>

<p>and YES being smart is a hook. Very common hook, but it is one. lol. </p>

<p>I said that" I could get a break for being black" because of this lesson we had in this ABC camp thing a few years back. And we were given a scenario that usually happens… IT was this, </p>

<p>The people of the world are always in a race. And it is a race to be successful, like having a job or going to college. But the race automatically doesn’t start off fairly just because of race.</p>

<p>A white person, a black person, a Asian person, and a spanish person might be applying to the same university. But they don’t all stand in the same place for a position. </p>

<p>Say all these people are in a line, the white person stays where he is, the asian takes 2 steps back, the spanish person takes 4 steps back, and then the black person takes 8 steps back.</p>

<p>Thats how we all start in the race, its not equal, no matter how much you want it to be because its"AMerica", its not. Never will be, never has been. Thats not how the world goes round. Black people have to work the hardest to be successful in life, harder than any one else. </p>

<p>So if someone wants to give me a chance just because I’m black, thats one less step I have to take back</p>

<p>And being realistic…its not even an advantage in the first place, because the white people are still gonna get theirs…=/</p>

<p>But I’m going to stop with this…cause I feel racist lol even though this is a topic that needs to be discussed. lol</p>

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So, white abolitionists were wrong? They should have just left things alone?</p>

<p>Now, I don’t think that AA is even remotely similar to slavery. I don’t even think AA is bad, although I’m somewhat concerned about how it impacts public perception of minority students after graduation. But I find your rationale appalling.</p>

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<p>Um. This isn’t a “who has it harder” competition.</p>