<p>Gen I see what you’re saying. I’m offended by it as well, but these “lower standards” don’t apply to me since I’m in the higher percentile for black students. I’m also offended by prejudiced adcoms. You never know. I’m offended by people assuming I’m stupid because I’m black. I’m offended by a lot of things. </p>
<p>It’s a complicated thing. Whites/Asians(not so sure about Asians, i mainly see white kids on CC angry) are against AA because they see it as racist, but they don’t realize that it’s combating their own racism which they perceive as normal.</p>
<p>But the thing is, I’m not racist. You’ll probably say I am, no matter what I say, but here’s my reasoning: In my eyes, most of the URMs I am friends with are ON THE SAME LEVEL as me generally. I expect my friends to get into amazing schools and do really well, and I think they deserve to. However, I really dislike that in the college admission process, they are held to lower standards. A 200 on the PSAT for national achievement versus a 221 for National Merit? Why should my friends who are equally (if not more) intelligent than me, with the same (if not more) opportunities, be held to lower standards in this way?</p>
<p>I didn’t say you’re racist, I understand how you feel, a lot of things discriminate against me, more so than yourself </p>
<p>Here’s a question:</p>
<p>Why doesn’t anyone complain when a white/Asian student with LOWER stats gets in? It happens more often than anyone realizes, but everyone is hell-bent on the idea that all minorities accepted to great schools don’t deserve it. </p>
<p>Colleges dont only look at grades(not yelling at you)!!! Its called a holistic approach. </p>
<p>About the national merit- it’s sad to say but not many African Americans actually get to a 200, let alone a 220. It’s a way to get more kids scholarships. Just because they got lower scores doesn’t mean they didn’t work just as hard.</p>
<p>I just feel like a LOT of people work hard to even get to a 200. And I am sure I will be complaining like hell if someone of the same race as me with lower stats gets into schools I want to go to. However this is an AA thread.
I SEE the point of AA, and I think that it’s good as it applies to people who HAVE had to overcome barriers because of their URM status, but I think its original goal is corrupted in the way it applies today(but isn’t that true of any social change program)</p>
<p>I know this is an AA thread, but all anti-AA people only focus on the minority who got in with lower stats. A lot of white/Asian kids get in with lower stats, so I guess if we get rejected we should just be mad at everyone. </p>
<p>AA won’t be necessary when employers, adcoms, and the population in general isn’t so prejudiced. </p>
<p>A study was done where there were two IDENTICAL applications. One with a “white” name and one with a “black” name. It was easy to identify the race of the fake applicant. In EVERY instance, the white applicant was chosen. Despite the resume being excellent, graduated from a top school, etc. </p>
<p>I think people should write their government officials and contact colleges if they have a problem with AA bashing us isn’t going to solve anything. It’s not our faults. </p>
<p>And while they’re at it, they should also complain about legacies/athletes, too.</p>
<p>how is being an athlete the same as being a URM?
Athletes work their whole lives(or at least their high school careers) at becoming great at what they do if they get to the level at which they get recruited. Being a URM is in no way the same. And the non-URM people who get in with lower stats have SOMETHING outside of their stats that make them stand out- check out “outstanding ecs”
This is an argument that will never come to a conclusion, so I’m done posting on this thread.</p>
<p>I think you guys are missing some points.
everyone benefits from this. How? minorities benefit on the short run when they get into college, which can result in 2 things: they succeed academically because they are smart or they don’t and end up having a lower gpa. asians/whites benefits in the long run because in college, they will be perceived as those that really really worked hard to get in (especially for asians in top 20), and thus when they graduate, they will be favored more by employers/costumers who have 2 people from same schools (this is especially true for asians going into med field). so yea, in a way, it screws minorities who are going to the science/health field because patients are going to have doubts in their mind. science/health fields are the ones that result in higher income so in the long run, minorities get screwed over again because when patients have a choice between an asian/white doctor vs a minority doctor who graduated from the same school, most choose the asian/white one without looking at other factors (yea racism exist). plus, because it is easier to get into med school because of urm status, it doesn’t mean it’s easier to graduate too. so those who shouldn’t have gotten in, will more likely to not graduate. urm who would have gotten in even if they were not urm, will end up with stigmas as they graduate even if they were smart.
So in a way, everyone benefits but everyone also lose. AA only makes people more sensitive about race issue and divide people more. it does nothing to loosen the racial tensions or even discrimination. </p>
<p>there was this story few weeks ago about this test that people have to take to become police officers. apparently, not that many african americas passed so the judicial people decided that it was racist and the passing score needed to become a cop needs to be lowerd from 69 to 53 so that more african americans can become cops. seriously? how is that good for anyone?? so basically yea there will be more african american cops but more people are going to look down on them because of this. affirmative action does result in unintentional consequences that harms urms on the long run</p>
The minority that got in with lower stats? Please. There is lots of information out there about the average stats for various racial/ethnic groups…and the differences are huge.</p>
<p>My take on AA: If it gets me into the toughest schools I am applying to (Princeton, Columbia/Barnard, Georgetown) then as far as I’m concerned its GREAT. lol</p>
<p>personally, I do not think it HURTS whites/asians chances of being accepted. In my opinion, I think those that complain about it are just mad because since colleges need more African-Americans to balance out the ethnic pools at their schools, the playing field is now leveled and there is more competition that they previously did not have to worry about. I don’t think it hurts anyone - it just helps those that may need it.</p>
<p>but… @aglages - I think it depends what schools you are looking at. And I don’t think the gaps are “huge”. And even though in most cases there are “differences” in URM stats compared to white/asian stats, I don’t think that has anything to do with the the stats that they got in with. College is a major adjustment for a lot of people,so it could be resulting from more than their supposed-inferiority because they were accepted with the help of AA…if that makes any sense. lol</p>
<p>I’m sort of in the middle when it comes to against affirmative action. I don’t think you should get into a school just because of your race but if you’ve had to overcome overwhelming circumstances to achieve academic success then AA could be helpful. I mean if you come from an extremely disadvantaged background and you haven’t had the same resources as other races then that should be taken into account. At the same time, their other races that go through these same problems as well. Not just African Americans. That’s why I think affirmative action is a little difficult to justify.</p>
<p>CPU, were you hoping that the others didn’t see the previous post? You did say “everyone” was not addressing your point, which clearly wasn’t the case.</p>
<p>Everyone thinks differently. I don’t take things in a literal sense, so that’s how I speak. In a non-literal sense. Abstract vs concrete thinking.</p>