<p>Okay, so most of us in this forum probably agree with Affirmative Action (I do). What I'm interested in are your different reasons for supporting AA. Is it simply because you earn an advantage in the college admissions process?; because you agree with it's purpose?; Why? This isn't meant to be a debate thread...let's not make it one.</p>
<p>Could someone care to explain what AA is?</p>
<p>I agree with it because, statistically speaking, without it college would be dominated (even more than it already is) by middle-class white and asian students.</p>
<p>Mainly, I hate when people think that AA is taking away spots from students who deserve it. Anyone who is admitted to a college obviously deserves to be there, it's just that perfect SAT scores are not the only measure of what academic capability.</p>
<p>Even though I can symphatize with some of the arguements surrounding AA, I would hate to see what colleges would look like without it. Even when it isn't written in stone as a policy, admins want diversity in their incoming classes. Because without diversity, there isn't as much to be learned!</p>
<p>I'd like to hear more about this, actually. I can't say I'm 100% sold on the idea since, yes, it is basically racist in a lot of cases. While underprivelaged and underrepresented "groups" should always get a fair shot, giving handouts and lowering requirements is actually insulting and basically a distraction from real problems. And you're also seperating them more from the rest of society by tossing them in easy to label groups. And just because they get a helping hand in school doesn't mean they will in the real world, and they're still going to be underrepresented because of the media, the government, and people with money who have control over everyone's fears. The real key to breaking the cycle is being independent.</p>
<p>That's my 2 cents.</p>
<p>EDIT: The "diversity" derived from it is fake though. Just because people look different doesn't make them diverse. It's a safe way for colleges to keep people under control.</p>
<p>@ dukebound:</p>
<p>AA = Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>i just think diversity makes for a better learning experience. both for other minorities, and for whites and ORMs.</p>
<p>Noooo I know what is stands for, but I dont get how it works! lol.</p>
<p>Ok. I also get confused about how AA is defined and it bothers me a bit, too. Affirmative Action is no longer in use. It is no longer a way of choosing students for a college or school. Yes, colleges will, after they look at you qualifications and stats, consider your background and your demographics, but the real AA that was created so long ago is not a determining factor for getting in at all. When everyone says AA now, are they refering to the fact the "minorities get into college easier" or are they not?</p>
<p>For the OP's question, I support diversifing student experiences. I think the having people from different backgrounds, life expericene, outlooks, point-of-views, etc. etc. really makes a difference for the four years spent on the college campus. I mean, who wants to live with the same, bland things. Diversity is essential. (notce that my definition of diversity does not stand on race alone, though that plays a big role)
So "AA" is good for the different results that it brings about once in college...the diverse ones...</p>
<p>I hope this made sense.</p>
<p>I am actually opposed to AA, bc I truly believe that it devalues the accomplishments of many minorities. Take for instance the thread about Actual results for African-americans, the blacks on that thread are qualified and near the top of ANY ethnic group. But when they get accepted to top colleges some people will sneer that it has something to do with race, which is not true. I personally find it offensive that there is a systematic program that actually lowers the standards for minorities, bc it is tantamount to tacitly saying that blacks are dumber and therefore need "additional help" to achieve what their Asian and white counterparts can achieve on their own.</p>
<p>I agree with Dbate</p>
<p>Dbate - so you're "dumb" because you cannot score 2300 on some standardized test? Well, if that's your idea of intelligence, then...</p>
<p>Colleges aren't saying "blacks are dumber, so let's give them extra help." What they are doing is realizing that there are many intelligent students who may not have the highest SAT scores or the most APs, but still are just as capable of succeeding. So instead of the typical strict, meritocratic approach to college admissions, they have turned to a more holistic method to selecting a more diverse range of students, and opening up opportunities to people who would have never had them before.</p>
<p>And as evidenced by the recent black graduation rates at the top schools, those colleges are right. Those black students, who may have had lower stats on average coming out of HS, are graduating at comparable rates to everyone else four years later. </p>
<p>I am for AA, because the traditional system of looking at test scores, GPA, and ECs and formulating a prototype for the "ideal" student for a school, ends up cutting out many qualified and capable minorities who may not have the high stats (due to various factors I can get into later) but have just as much intellectual vitality as other students. I believe those students deserve a chance. Especially with the obvious uneven playing field they have been given due to the past actions of our government.</p>
<p>Edit: and yes, with AA we will always have to deal with people saying "___ only accomplished so and so because he/she is black." But being afraid of that criticism is a pretty weak reason to oppose AA, IMO. I'm sure that back in the '60s, some people were saying "White people will just get angrier at us and become more aggressive if we ask for equal rights, so let's just keep our mouths shut." If everyone thought like that, where would we really be today?</p>
<p>I still agree with Dbate.</p>
<p>I have to side w/ dbate and Blu. When blacks get into a top school ppl always say it bc of race, but they say that for everyone dont they . She got in bc of legacy, he got in bc of money, etc (i kno they do in my school)</p>
<p>but there have been studies that show that there are differences in scores between the diff ethnic groups. Qualified blks sometimes dont score as high as white students with the same potential. bc of these studies (which i will try to find the links to) colleges let in some minorites w/ slightly lower scores. </p>
<p>I also dont think it is as drastic as ppl expect. ur not getting into harvard w/ a 1650 out of 2400 sat whether ur black, white, purple, or green. The ppl they let in will only be slightly lower and will have other factors that show that they have high potential.</p>
<p>I agree w/ AA bc it makes sure the class is diverse, without it those numbers on the thread for black enrollment at top colleges would be even lower.</p>
<p>I think people forget about important AA and similar practices can be. Who wants to be in a homogeneous school? I want to go to a school that is very diverse and allows me to meet people of all races and religions. I don't have a tendency to stick to a certain race and eschew the people who are different so that what works really well for me. As I apply to schools now, I wish schools were more diverse because even though many of them are making a strong effort, 6% Black, 6% Latino, 8% White and 80% White or Unknown, for example, doesn't seem very diverse to me.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"What they are doing is realizing that there are many intelligent students who may not have the highest SAT scores or the most APs, but still are just as capable of succeeding. So instead of the typical strict, meritocratic approach to college admissions, they have turned to a more holistic method to selecting a more diverse range of students, and opening up opportunities to people who would have never had them before."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The problem is that there are thousands of Asians and whites who are smart, but unable to accomplish high scores on the SAT or take the most APs, but will colleges admit them? No. Regardless of the errors in the system, it is how college admissions work. I see no reason that the standards should be lowered specifically for blacks and hispanics. Sure SOME black people come from disadvantaged backgrounds, but looking at these boards it seems that many of the people who are accepted to top schools come from homes that make 100K+ (black, white, or Asian), which means people are not living improverished.
So why should a black person who has not experienced hardship recieve admission over a disadvantaged Asian applicant?</p>
<p>There shouldn't even be an option to bubble in race on applications. It's preposterous. Although, I guess we all know what race Delonte is.. </p>
<p>Anyway. Other races should be held to the same standards as whites. People shouldn't be given a boost in the admissions process for something like that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Other races should be held to the same standards as whites. People shouldn't be given a boost in the admissions process for something like that"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I severly disagree. Other races should be held to the same standards as each other NOT WHITES. Something that irks me to no end is the fact that every minority group in our society gauges themselves by white people. It bothers me that the ethnocentric conception that we tacitly hold, places whites on a pedestal. Even though i know it stems from a historically flawed conception of white superiority, it still bothers me how people act and think in a manner that implies that white people are better than others.</p>
<p>The above comment is a prime example. Asians overwhelming outperform whites, yet the poster says people should be held to the same standards of whites, which is NOT the highest standard of academic excellence. And yes the aforementioned statement is sterotypical, but looking through these boards and from anecdotal evidence from real life, suggests that Asians are more capable than whites academically.</p>
<p>I'm extremely sorry for that!! I just usually see people commenting that whites are the most overrepresented race and the majority of a student body is usually white. I certainly do retract that sentence and substitute what dbate said! I meant that in my head, anyway :P</p>
<p>
[quote]
The problem is that there are thousands of Asians and whites who are smart, but unable to accomplish high scores on the SAT or take the most APs, but will colleges admit them? No. Regardless of the errors in the system, it is how college admissions work. I see no reason that the standards should be lowered specifically for blacks and hispanics. Sure SOME black people come from disadvantaged backgrounds, but looking at these boards it seems that many of the people who are accepted to top schools come from homes that make 100K+ (black, white, or Asian), which means people are not living improverished.
So why should a black person who has not experienced hardship recieve admission over a disadvantaged Asian applicant?
[/quote]
I didn't say all URMs should get in over all Asians and all whites. I said that colleges look at each student holistically, they look at every aspect of their application in context. If an Asian student is from a poor school district and was able to succeed with the few opportunities afforded to him/her, colleges will take that into account. In the end, that student could possibly get in over a middle-class/wealthy black student who has been going to expensive private schools all his life, yet didn't really stand out in his HS career.</p>
<p>AA, as practiced, is a terrible idea. Individuals from disadvantaged circumstances should be provided with classes, tutoring, mentors, encouragement, whatever is needed, before they get to college. Give them whatever they need so that they can do well on the SATs and SAT subject tests. Perhaps a year or 2 or more of preparation after high school. If after that they still are unable to compete on an equal footing they should not be given a bye by way of lowered admission requirements which, lets face it, is what is happening now.</p>