What do you guys think of it? In my school there are some mexicans and african-americans that are really smart, but still don’t do as well on tests and school as I do, but I, as an indian, do not get the benefits of affirmative action in college since my race is not underrepresented. Will these kids get in easily just because of their race? Neither of them have grown up in bad circumstances. In fact, both of them have both parents as professors and are way richer than I am. I think affirmative action should only apply to people that have grown up in poverty or something. What do you guys think?
<p>go to search and type in "affirmative action." starting a new thread on this topic usually isn't a good idea.</p>
<p>"I think affirmative action should only apply to people that have grown up in poverty or something."</p>
<p>That's what you think. You can't speak for the whole country as a whole now. FYI: Most Mexicans aren't as rich as you. Maybe that one instances, but not generally.</p>
<p>I would know, I' m Mexican.</p>
<p>"FYI: Most Mexicans aren't as rich as you. Maybe that one instances, but not generally"</p>
<p>So you would not have a problem to limiting affirmative action to people that have grown up in poverty?</p>
<p>I understand your viewpoint, but the whole point of Affirmative Action would be to scout out and attract minority canidates. I don't think that only people in poverty should be given the option, as opposed to being a minority.</p>
<p>So you think that people should be treated differently on the sole basis of skin color only when it serves their purpose?</p>
<p>Have your cake and eat it too lately?</p>
<p>i mite recieve harsh comments for the following opinions ... but i actually would appreciate them.. i want to kno wat other ppl think</p>
<p>i am an indianamerican [gujurati\patel].. obviously my opinions will be biased towards my perspective.. keep it in mind</p>
<p>i DO NOT like aff. action</p>
<p>now here's why.</p>
<p>1) a study at berkeley showed the following. in 1997, the last year that aff. action was legal at berkeley, there were 500 blacks 300 hispanics and 60 native americans in the entering frosh class. in 2000, after they got rid of aff. action, there were 250 blacks, 100 hispanics and 12 native americans. here's the interesting part. after they got rid of aff. action and made decisions based on "things" outside of ethnicity, the # of white students increased by 16%. Asians increased by 26%. What does this say?... well, if we use our brains... we see that what these institutions r doing... is giving away seats that would normally go to asians/whites to underrepresented minorites. BUT... most of these seats would normally go to asians!... in the end... its the korean/chinese/indian kid that is getting hurt the MOST... why?... becuz institutions in america [lets face it]... r run by white ppl... naturally, they r going to give the spot of the "overrepresented minority" away be4 they give the "white kid's" spot away... so wen i hear all these white kids whining about.... "oh aff. action isnt fair becuz a black kid is taking my seat away"... well... that MAY be the case... but more often... that seat is merely being taken away from an overrepresented minority and being given to an underrepresented minority.</p>
<p>... it is due to this... that i hate aff. action.. cuz it affects me the most.. so naturally im going to be ****ed</p>
<p>2) the problem lies within our education system on the elementary level. more funds/resources and better education NEEDS to be given to kids in urban areas... altho this is a stereotype... the majority of these underrepresented minorities live in urban areas where they dont have access to education that an asian or white kid [such as myself] has in a suburb.</p>
<p>here's sumthin interesting about me... i was born and raised in jamaica, queens nyc... lived there till i was 12... went to a K-8 skool that had maybe 160 kids total... during my 7 years at that skool... i saw ONE white kid... nd she was in 8th grade wen i was in first... everyone else was hispanic/black
now i live in a suburb outside of philly... i currently attend a prep skool... 500 kids... i think 480 white kids... maybe 3 blacks.. the rest asians... maybe 2/3 hispanic...</p>
<p>my point--> I have been on BOTH ends of the spectrum... i went to skool in an urban area and i ALSO am going to a 10 grand a year prep skool... in the end... its not that these kids in urban areas dont have smarts... its that they dont have the guidance/motivation/pressure from authority figures l... wen i was in ny... i was always at the top of my class.. y?.. becuz i wanted to go to stuyvesant.. and prolly would have had i stayed... now i go to a skool where im surrounded by atleast 30 future ivy leaguers out of 125 in my graduating class... these kids ALL work hard... there's no reason that there spot should be given away to give sum kid in center city philadelphia a "chance"... if u want sumthing.. u should have to earn it... nd being an Underepresented minority shouldnt earn u anything... ur brain/work ethic should</p>
<p>ONE last point.. i kno im writing alot...</p>
<p>GLUCOSE 101 said: "FYI: Most Mexicans aren't as rich as you. Maybe that one instances, but not generally."</p>
<p>ok... "most" mexican students do not come from as much wealth as the typical white or asian kid.... but since MOST kids dont come from this type of background... does that mean that ALL mexicans should be given the benefit of the doubt?... does that mean that all mexicans should be able to use aff. action to their advantage.. NOOOOOO! ... ZOGOTO said sumthin interesting... he said... "In fact, both of them have both parents as professors"... now if ur parents r professors.. obviously u r going to have access to superior education becuz ur gonna cum from a stable financial background... so y should u benefit thru aff. action?... if u can answer this question.. i would REALLY appreciate it.. im not trying to be sarcastic.. i just want to know... if u r "well-off" and have had access to every ounce of education.. but r not as bright as the kid next to u... y should u get in based on ethnicity?</p>
<p>the reason y this really <strong><em>es me off is cuz im a high school senior... i want to go into medicine.. i want to major in bio... so im filing my hopkins app over xmas... nd i remember my bio teachers daughter [a student at hopkins] telling me NOT to major in bio on my app... y?... cuz as an asian... it will be very tough for me to get in... it is harder for me to get in as a bio major simply becuz im asian... so i had to put sum other *</em></strong>*** major down just so i could get in... the reason... becuz hopkins DOEs look at ethnicity wen it picks students.. it wants "balance" and diversity.. it isnt gonna get that with a class full of asians in premed and all white kids in a political science classroom</p>
<p>anywyas.. im rambling
post ur thoughts</p>
<p>^^^Right on all counts</p>
<p>also... i AGREE with harvards financial aid initiative... basically wat it is.... is, any student coming from a family that makes less than 60g's total income.. gets a full ride</p>
<p>this is a GOOD policy/program... often times... smart kids from poor areas/bad financial backgrounds cant go to a "top skool" cuz they cant afford it... thr this program... ANY KID.. DESTITUTE, POOR, RICH, FILTHY RICH, or UNGODLY rich can alllll go to harvard.. IF they r smart enuff to get in...THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!</p>
<p>aff. action is absolute cr*p... if u want to help underrepresented minorities... give em better educations at the elementary levels.... dont give away another kids spot... ALSO... sumthing seems to be overlooked...</p>
<p>don't asian kids such as myself come from poor circumstances as well????... i know plenty of chinese/korean/indian/pakistani kids that arent wealthy.. BUT... when they apply for college... imagine how that kid must feel... its harder for him to get in.. then it is for ANY OTHER kid becuz of his ethnicity... and he/she may come from a background that would truly require sum help...</p>
<p>I'm sorry...I just really don't agree with any of yall. You all act as if minorities are just "stealing" your seat. In a sense they are, but they are JUST as (if not better) qualified as yourself. I think most people get the picture that they are just shoe-ins...they aren't! Have you ever wondered...that maybe they are BETTER than you, in terms of the application process? </p>
<p>And you know what, college is somewhat based on ethnicity...if you can't handle that, or think that it is unfair, get over it! </p>
<p>"i know plenty of chinese/korean/indian/pakistani kids that arent wealthy.." </p>
<p>True, but I can't say for the school I go to. The Asian population makes up 40% of my school. Let's just say that there are TONS of near-millionaire parents! There are different ranges, naturally, but for the most part they are well to do. </p>
<p>"i remember my bio teachers daughter [a student at hopkins] telling me NOT to major in bio on my app"</p>
<p>Let me guess...the reason why is because EVERYONE there takes bio (not literally for all you people).</p>
<p>"So you think that people should be treated differently on the sole basis of skin color only when it serves their purpose?"</p>
<p>I guess so, then.</p>
<p>If they are as smart as the normal acceptees, or even smarter than the normal acceptees, then there would be no problem with taking away affirmative action.</p>
<p>well... ok... lets address some of these points u brought up</p>
<p>First</p>
<p>You stated: "I think most people get the picture that they are just shoe-ins"</p>
<p>... u r WAYYYY off base... most ppl DO NOT think that they r shoe-ins... that is the most thoughtless reply i have ever heard... i dont know... maybe the ppl u have met/encountered during your lifetime have given u this impression... BUt i can assure it is not the case..</p>
<p>SECOND</p>
<p>"Have you ever wondered...that maybe they are BETTER than you, in terms of the application process?"</p>
<p>...if thats the case... THEN WHY WOULD THERE BE A NEED FOR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION???...exactly... once again.. thats another thoughtless statement</p>
<p>THIRD</p>
<p>"Let me guess...the reason why is because EVERYONE there takes bio (not literally for all you people)."</p>
<p>U R WRONG AND AGAIN MISINFORMED... contrary to popular belief... the most popular major at hopkins IS NOT BIO... its international studies... hopkins has a reputation for the sciences becuz of its great med skool...but in actuality... the most popular major amongst undergrads is international studies... so therefore... the argument that bio is hard to get into becuz it is the most popular major is wrong... becuz "everyone there DOES NOT take bio"</p>
<p>fourth</p>
<p>you stated..."So you think that people should be treated differently on the sole basis of skin color only when it serves their purpose?</p>
<p>I guess so, then."</p>
<p>all i have to say to this... is that with your reply... you are essentially telling me that you are unable to make logical arguments for why aff. action is needed... so you decide to be sarcastic and a smart as*</p>
<p>finally... please let it be known.. that im not attempting to single u out... i just wish to have an enlightening and educational debate on peoples opinion for whether aff. action should be used or not</p>
<p>also-- one last point FAVORING aff. action... remember.. that most of these "top skools" that use aff. action are PRIVATE,,, IF they want a black kid over me... that is fine!... it is their choice... if they feel that adding people of all ethnicities, regardless of who's more accomplished academically, will add most to their institution.. then they are entitled to that opinion... if they feel that they r at a greater advantage with ppl's of all ethnicities rather than just all smart kids... then thats fine.. and u kno what!.. legit arguments can be made for backing that point up... my thing is... is that I KNOW for a fact that if a school rejects me.. its their loss... not mine... y?... becuz i have the confidence in myslef that down the line... i will make a great impact upon society thru my work... and if harvard or penn wants to pass that up.. THEN THATS FINE.. ITS THEIR CHOICE... THEY R PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS.. THYE CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT... </p>
<p>HOWEVER.... one huge problem.. is that at STATE skools... skools that r funded by TAX PAYERS... they use aff. action... and quite frankly... that is completely ridiculous.. there is no way that that should be allowed... private.. fine, i disagree but its the skools choice... state skools that arte funded thru my dads wallet... should not use aff action.. if state govts want to give "equal opportunity" then use the tax dollars to better the education system for ppl in inner cities</p>
<p>I am totally against Aff. Action. I believe students should be accepted to schools primarily based on their ABILITIES and NOT because of their ethnicities.</p>
<p>To support the argument against AA, I offer an example that happened at a school in my district a few years ago. There were 2 kids:</p>
<p>Kid A: 1600 SAT, Aca Deca state champ or something close to it, SELF STUDIED 6 APS (2 4's and 4 5's) plus a slew of other 4's and 5's from ones he took at school (this implies that he is a genius), knows more art history than any kid/professor/god I have ever heard of. </p>
<p>Kid B: A great leader, not very big on competitions, but in Varsity Wrestling 4 years. Took regular amount of APs (6 or so in all), good ecs, etc. 1500 SAT</p>
<p>Which one got into harvard? Kid B, and most people think that the reason kid A didn't get into H is that he was white whereas Kid B was hispanic. This is ridiculous.</p>
<p>Maybe I am a jerk, but the reality is, Affirmative Action is here to stay...and nothing is going to change that! :-D</p>
<p>Uhh I'm sure there were slave owners in the early 1800s that said slavery is here to stay...and nothing is going to change that! :-D</p>
<p>I guess they were wrong.</p>
<p>Plus, one of my teachers once said that if you're native american, SAT 1200 = Harvard, MIT, etc.</p>
<p>"I guess they were wrong."</p>
<p>There still is slavery in the world.</p>
<p>no offense, but who cares what 1 teacher said...</p>
<p>and just for the record it really - me off when people automatically assume that hispanics and blacks get in with lower sats and less ec's than asian or white people just because they are minorities. noboady questions the situation when a WHITE student with a 1350 beats another WHITE student with a 1500. they just say, "well he/she had better essays and ec's and was more passionate and sat scores arent everything blah blah blah." but if the student with the 1350 is a MINORITY, people are quick to yell "oh its Aff Action.' its a bunch of bs. </p>
<p>i understand that schools may be looking to diversify their student body by race, but they look to do this in many other ways too. they diversify by ec's, personal interests, and many other factors. </p>
<p>hypothetically speaking, lets say a school had 99 admitted white students and only one more spot open. but there are two students competing for the last spot, a hispanic and white person. both have very similar applications. the schools will pick the hispanic one because they want to make the school as diverse as possible.</p>
<p>obviously the situation is very unprobable, but im trying to say that schools arent LOWERING STANDARDS by purposely picking minority students. those minority students (esp at top schools) deserve to be there. they have the same if not more potential. i dont believe a student with a 1200, little ecs, 3.0 gpa should get accepted over a student with 1400+ sat, 3.8+ gpa, great ecs just because of race. but i do think that when the difference between a minority students app and a white/asian students app is neglible, its ok for that spot to be given to the minority since both races (pc?) are qualified, but not both are well represented in that particular school.</p>
<p>Oh no . . . so it's begun again. CK61188 really hit the nail on the head in saying it's REALLY not a good idea to start up topics like this . . . it's mostly a bunch of confusing and hypocritical crap, and anyone who wants to find out info about it on CC need not look back much farther than a week.</p>
<p>I didn't read anything except for the first two posts, but I just wanted to leave my opinion, since I've already had enough AA discussion to last me for a few months.</p>