Are Asian Americans part of affirmative action? And does low-income (very low) look good or bad in college admissions?
<p>Asian Americans are not part of AA. I don't know much about low-income.</p>
<p>For the most part, Asians do not benefit from affirmative action. However, sometimes Asians do benefit, usually with the very small LACs, regional colleges, and so forth. But at pretty much all of the top colleges and universities, you'll find that Asians are overrepresented.</p>
<p>It depends on the college. For need-aware colleges, which include pretty much all of the public schools, being low income does not help, and may in fact hurt if you're a marginal applicant. For need-blind colleges (usually the most prestigious schools, such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Northwestern, and many others), low-income status helps a lot. I suggest using fee waivers to apply to colleges, since that will save you a lot of money and show that you are indeed from a low-income family.</p>
<p>There are still many schools where the Asian population is small, and you would be counted in their "minority" population. Many schools are also looking for strong students from low income families, no matter what your ethnic makeup. Have your parents been to college? "First generation" (means your parents didn't go to college) students are also attractive to many schools.</p>
<p>can you give me an example of these LAC with no diversity? I suspect that most top 50 LAC have enough diversity for it not to be a factor in admissions for non URMs. How bout Wash and Lee?</p>
<p>here is the common data set for Washington and Lee University.</p>
<p><a href="http://ir.wlu.edu/cds/2004pdf.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://ir.wlu.edu/cds/2004pdf.pdf</a></p>
<p>Class of 2008</p>
<p>Non resident aliens 11</p>
<p>Black, non-Hispanic 15 </p>
<p>American Indian or Alaskan Native 3 </p>
<p>Asian or Pacific Islander 23 </p>
<p>Hispanic 7
White, non-Hispanic 399 </p>
<p>Multiracial or unknown 2 Total 460</p>
<p>I don't think AA helps Asians (or other minorites, for that matter) at small LAC's. The ones that look small and homogenous appear to be that way for a reason.</p>
<p>Anyway, in general, though, AA hurts Asians a lot. Which is why I hate it. I don't want the color of my skin or the heritage of my parents being a factor in determining whether I'm admitted or not. Diversity my ass.</p>
<p>How do you claim fee waiverS?</p>
<p>AA will help at schools like at Top 50 schools like Colby, Bates, & Kenyon, but at most Top LACs, Asians are atleast 8%, which is high considering most are 3% for African Americans.</p>
<p>You need to ask your college counselor to request fee waivers for your specific college.</p>
<p>YoMama, yes I am first generation and my parents are divorced. Does this help in college admissions? I am planning to apply to top colleges and some ivies.</p>
<p>Your parents being divorced really does nothing for your cause either way. If either of your parents have remarried, the school may used the income of your stepparents in calculating financial aid to the extent that your parent benefitted from the marriage.</p>
<p>I hear no one crying about legacy. </p>
<p>Anyway there is no turning back with more and more Latinos coming over to the US more and more AA. This is good for America. It is also good for business. It should be mandatory that all MBA graduates speak a second language. When I attended grad school in the UK all my friends spoke at least two languages.</p>
<p>affirmative action is complete BS</p>
<p>and i don't feel bad if anyone is offended by this comment</p>
<p>important distinction:</p>
<p>Theono, I read where you said what does the color of my skin have to do with anything? Well, in most cases, whether someone is Asian, Black, Hispanic, Native American or white leads to them having had different experiences and therefore they see the world differently, so. just like growing up International or rural, it shapes who you are.</p>
<p>There is a reason why so many Americans so strongly dislike AA, is because America is the land of the individual. Schools are not looking at selecting the top students they are looking at creating the best class and that means they have to assemble people who have different strengths.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people may not like this illustration but AA is a lot like recruiting a for a football team. Marcc, you may be the fourth most talented recruit the coach is looking at, but if you are a fullback and the top three other players are all fullbacks, you are not as valuable to the coach as someone who can play tight end, quarterback, defensive end, linebacker or kicker.</p>
<p>This is why almost every school in America embraces Affrimative Action: it's not just theory to schools, we see the incredible impact that bringing in people of different backgrounds has to upgrade the life experiences and the quality of the education of individuals.</p>
<p>In addition to this, those who oppose AA believe that test scores and grades are equivalent to competence. Bates has done a lot to dispel the import that scores should have in the admissions process; what about character, leadership, the ability to surmount difficult life obstacles. In life, these things are better predictors of who is going places-and who a school would like in it's student body-than test scores. This is why employers focus more on the interview and the references than how one did on a standardized test score.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I find it interesting that most people who rally against AA, feel more outraged over affirmative action that benefits underrepresented students of color than they do over priviledged alumni kids, with educated parents, extensive travel in their background, private schooling and every imaginable form of priviledge, but somehow it doesn't seem as offensive if a school admits a white alumni kid or an athlete with a lower academic performance, but as soon as a black or hispanic benefits, the outrage is palpable. Could it be that people are outraged because people are more likely to see the white alumni kid as their equal, but they feel they are superior to the kid of color who is taking THEIR ENTITLED spot away from THEM? I'm just asking the question. </p>
<p>It's interesting how some of the biggest detractors of AA I've heard over the years have also complained about how Asian some of the most selective schools are. Everyone knows that Asians have to have stronger academic credrentials than white kids to get into most of the top schools. If the argument is really about fairness and not entitlement, wouldn't the opponents of AA be passionate about how Asians are being discrimmanted against, but you rarely hear that case.</p>
<p>AA is about creating the best school and not taking the most polished academic student and it benefits historically discrimmanted against students of color, alumni, athletes, celebrity kids, development cases, unique geographical locations, etc. All of these categories help create the best school, but it's interesting how so much of the noise gets focussed on the 925 black kids that got into the IVY league last year; not a lot of admits for so much commotion, but it's worth asking the question why the passion is evoked over race and not other categories.</p>
<p>I don't expect this post to change a single persons opinion, but hopefully generate some useful discussion.</p>
<p>oh noo! close this thread immediately.</p>
<p>If I were applying to U of Michigan and had the same exact credentials (or better for that matter) and came from the same type of family as another applicant, but he was African American, he would get in over me. That's why I dislike AA.</p>
<p>As an Asian myself, I know how you guys feel. you probably feel angry that somebdy else is taking your spot</p>
<p>But look at it this way. The percentage of African Americans involved in crime is significantly higher than any other races. In nyc(and tons of other cities as well), a lot of these kids grow up in single parent families where their siblings and mothers one-by-one slowly succumb to drug use or violence from gangs. Their entire enviornment and mentality is the different from what we have. </p>
<p>You might argue that some AF Americans are wealthy, or that low-income students of other races should be helped as well. I admit this is a valid point to get angry over of. Yes, theese are loopholes, but get this: a low-income Asian(myself) is going to do better in school than a low income African American. Why? Because we have different cultures. I grew up in a broken family but we were told(not forced) that education was the way to go.</p>
<p>Before all of you CC'ers get angry over somebody taking your spot because of AA, think about your own sheltered environment and lives. If all of the elite colleges were filled with you, the class will be very very mudane.</p>
<p>Conclusion: AA should be taken in perspective. There are bad points(which I have mentioned above) but overall its pretty fair.</p>
<p>for all opponents of AA, I think you should take your anger on rich kids instead whose parents spend tons of money on private tutors and conselors to get them into the elite colleges. Parents actually pay private counselors 25K to hear advice on what their kids should do starting freshman year .</p>
<p>^^^ some of those rich kids (with private 25k college counselors) are probably in this forum and don't like AA either.</p>
<p>Marcc I read your response and your example of the University of Michigan, but once again, you are focussing on you the individual and not the collective assemblage of a class at the University of Michigan.</p>
<p>Amherst practices AA and their black kids graduate at a 95% rate; it's 94% at Harvard and 93% at Princeton. These schools are finding kids who are succeeding at those institutions.</p>
<p>Furthemore, schools know that unless they have a critical mass of kids of color, they are going to have serious attrition problems.</p>
<p>I don't know about your school experience, but I would say that the white kids where I work often credit the presence of the black and hispanic kids on campus as one of the most influential aspects of a residential experience. The white full pay families consistently tell us that they are drawn to our school because of our diversity. </p>
<p>The world that people are going out into is a very multi-ethnic, multi-racial one and statistics show over and over that black kids and white kids are coming to college from segregated neighborhoods and segregated high schools. </p>
<p>Educators know there is great educational value in bringing together a diverse group of students who are capable of excelling in the classroom and making significant contributions outside the classroom.</p>
<p>This may not seem fair to you, but a school doesn't look at it that way; a school asks the question, will the majority of our students benefit if we increase our diversity. Will our community be stronger? Will we shape and mold young lives in ways we can't possibly do unless they interface with people from cultures that they are inevitably going to interact with as they move into adulthood. </p>
<p>Schools ask themselves, what will so and so's unique life experiences do to enrich the dialogue in the class. What perspective will they bring that is currently lacking or underrepresented within the student body. Schools don't live in some theoretical bubble, but schools are forced to observe the impact that all types of diversity have on quality education. There are a lot of points that can be made here, but ultimately it boils down to the fact that if you are the 7th best player trying out for a team, but the other six players in front of you are also fullbacks, you don't benefit the coach as much as someone who plays a position that is underrepresented within the student body. </p>
<p>Is AA perfect? Of course not, but does it strengthen an institution and improve the education of those who are at the institution, the evidence seems to strongly support this.</p>