<p>Are posters not noticing that this D has an A in Calculus in hs and that her Math SAT is above average for the college she plans to attend? I’m not getting comments about her being “not good with math.” </p>
<p>Her mother describes her as an “average” hs student (not sure what that means) but reports that she has B+/A- grades in Chem, Physics and Math.</p>
<p>If she is attending a college commensurate with her abilities (and she has a merit scholarship, so I’m guessing she is), I don’t see a reason to believe she cannot succeed in the major she chooses.</p>
<p>OP, as others have said, she can always change majors. But if Physics is what she wants, it’s best that she start with that curriculum, so as not to fall behind in prerequisites.</p>
<p>I’m an engineering student, but I’ve taken a fair amount of physics courses already, and I also tutor both physics for engineering and science, so I thought I’d chime in - </p>
<p>As others have said, yes, calculus is extremely essential for physics. Like Cardinal Fang mentioned, Newton invented calculus to solve his physics problems. Because we teach calculus and physics as separate courses, generally, it’s easy to forget that fact, but it’s true. In particular, calculus is quite essential for the first several physics courses a physics major would take. At my college, and at many others, there is an easier calculus sequence taken by business majors.</p>
<p>Here’s the thing, though - it will become incredibly clear after one or two semesters whether or not physics is the right major for her! I did very well in Physics I, but it was nonetheless on a totally different level from high school physics, even the AP Physics C material. I did decently well in Physics II (the classic killer physics course for engineers here at CMU), but it really made me glad I wasn’t a physics major! </p>
<p>Of course, all of this varies from school to school - a lot of engineering students here will take Physics II at Pitt instead of CMU in hopes of it being easier/getting a better grade :p</p>
<p>Here is a potentially useful (or at least interesting) study that may be relevant. It matters more if one is thinking of graduate work in physics, but nonetheless speaks to some of the relationship between SAT-M and success in this major. Keep in mind you can do much with a physics major even if you aren’t going to graduate school:</p>
<p>But I agree with others that say, let her give it a go. At worse, she’ll be like 67% of students that change their intended major. Part of college is figuring it all out, which is why most students don’t have to declare a major for at least a year if not two.</p>
<p>I would also add that I think its crazy to base what you are good at or not good at from one highschool course. Such a grade can depend on so many factors- especially the teacher- so it seems a shame to make longer term decisions based on so little information.</p>
<p>I’m an engineer, and engineering majors and physics majors take mostly the same classes the first year. As others have said upthread, physics and calculus are very linked. </p>
<p>LOTS of students drop out of engineering. I’ve heard engineering referred to as pre-business. </p>
<p>I agree with others - let her try to do physics. If she has a bad first semester, she might change her mind and switch to another major. </p>
<p>It depends on the school I suppose, but I expect that it is still possible to graduate in 4 years as a business major even if the student doesn’t declare business at the start.</p>
<p>One more comment - high school physics is often the non-calculus based one. At college, non-calculus based physics is offered to non-science majors, sometimes called “physics for poets”. Physics majors and engineers take the calculus-based physics classes.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your input! I’m sure she can do fine with the courses IF SHE really focuses and puts the time in. </p>
<p>I don’t think she realizes that it is one of the harder majors though and that social life may have to suffer. And there is a lot to lose if she gets Cs first semester. If it wasn’t for the scholarship issue I would be fine with her getting Cs if she gives it a good try. But the scholarship is the only reason she’s going to this particular school.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, have you looked at the school’s academic calendar? Here are CMU, where there are lots of tech majors who take very challenging classes, our date to withdraw without a “W” on your transcript is quite late into the semester (something like almost halfway through or so). I know at some colleges it is very early (e.g. after the first week), but it’s something you might check out just to see if she has any extra leeway! (Of course, there can be problems if dropping a class brings the student below the required number of units.) I actually thought of this, though, because the Physics II class I took is the most dropped class at all of CMU, and I can tell you the class certainly shrunk after that drop point.</p>
<p>California Dancer, great idea, but I looked and unfortunately the last day to drop without a “W” is a few weeks in!! I don’t know how a W looks re scholarship “B” average requirement.</p>
<p>W is not used in calculating the GPA (but WF is – so make sure to withdraw on time). It’s obvious but you can try Physics with a really, really easy course. So if you get C in Phys and A in the other, you’ll be safe for the scholarship. There are plenty of elective courses that are pretty easy.</p>
<p>What I have been told by my adviser is that a W or two freshman year is absolutely no problem, and definitely would just not be a big deal at all in the grand scheme of things. Also, I would assume that it would be even less of a problem if your D were to take a W in a difficult physics class, and then go off in a different direction like business - I’m sure no one would give it a second thought.</p>
<p>Maybe you can calculate just how many, if any Cs, she can take on and still keep her scholarship. Many science majors will only have say one course in their intended major in the first semester. One C I would imagine is doable. </p>
<p>You might also check out the ‘tutoring’ thread. NOT that you want or can afford to spend a lot on tutoring for that first course (to keep up her GPA for the scholarship), but trying to line up some normal price tutoring (and or free peer tutoring) might be the ticket. Just suggesting to plan for it and be forearmed to cope if it does turn out to be a toughie term (for the sake of the scholarship). </p>
<p>Now that I think about it, isn’t it crazy that they don’t adjust cut offs for scholarships based on courses taken? It just seems it would be more fair and realistic to say “in the 50Th percentile in each class” or some other measure (vs this crazy general cut off when courses vary so much in difficulty and/or grading curves). But I digress…</p>
<p>Mom of a female physics student. (Actually D1 graduated with a double BS in physics and math. She did research in high energy physics as an undergrad.)</p>
<p>Physics students don’t necessarily have to like to calculus, but they do have be comfortable with using it. D1 would NEVER say she likes calculus, but she’s willing to plug away at it to solve homework sets. </p>
<p>(There seem to be two approaches to solving calculus-based physics problems: intuitive and brute force [try everything until something works]. D2 is intuitive and D1 is brute force. Intuitive problem solving is prettier, but brute force also works. I’ve known PhD physicists who fall into both groups too.)</p>
<p>Modern physics (the calculus based introduction course that all physics majors take) is bound to be a bit of shock. Many students don’t do well it, esp at first, and will give up before they have a chance to develop their bag of math tricks and their physical understanding of the field. For most kids, it takes a while to “get” it. Cs in Modern Physics are pretty common, even among students who go on to be successful physics majors.</p>
<p>Being a girl in a largely male major can be a bit isolating. If there is a local chapter on campus, encourage your daughter to seek out fellowship and support from groups like WISE (Women in Science & Engineering). WISE will also help arrange free peer tutoring.</p>
<p>It partly depends on the competition she’s facing in school, i.e., her peers. If she is good at math in HS, and her college is not too competitive, she should be fine. (The profs don’t move too fast, etc. )She’ll need to be good at using math in physics. but in some colleges, physics is one of the most competitive majors. smart kids do physics. There is no comparision between physics and business - no offense. but many of my students (physics) took business courses for different reasons, and their comments are always - compared to what we do here, business is a piece of cake. Yet physics and esp. engineering graduates get jobs easily and are well paid. </p>
<p>For all reasons, it’s worth to try. It’s a beautiful field!</p>
<p>That would mainly be physics majors at schools where first semester calculus is a prerequisite for the first physics course (though many of them have had AP calculus and can start immediately with the first physics course), or math or statistics majors whose only major courses as freshmen would be the calculus sequence (or more advanced math if they have AP or other credit for it).</p>
<p>ihs76, that’s pretty cool Let’s see, I’m an engineering major, but I do spy Maxwell’s equations, Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation, Bernoulli’s equation…I haven’t had much chem, so I’m a little lacking in that area…</p>
<p>My daughter explained to me yesterday that college students can get good grades, have a nice social life, and they can sleep. When they are majoring in difficult majors, they can only manage two of the three and must choose.</p>
<p>@ihs, I think the cartoon is really cool. It goes my pen name here. As a physicist, I can’t describe in words how much fun physics is and why it goes with Mozart and Beethovan and all the beautiful things in the universe… I think if anybody has any interest in it, it definitely is worth persuing. There will be a lot of hard work for sure, like all the good things one can achieve in life. Sorry I’m sure I’m biased.</p>
<p>If she does succeed, she will have a degree in a very demanding major that does not have a lot of women degree-holders. She should be able to attend grad school for next-to-no-cost.</p>
Let’s see, I’m an engineering major, but I do spy Maxwell’s equations, Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation, Bernoulli’s equation…I haven’t had much chem, so I’m a little lacking in that area…</p>
As a physicist, I can’t describe in words how much fun physics is and why it goes with Mozart and Beethovan and all the beautiful things in the universe… I think if anybody has any interest in it, it definitely is worth persuing. There will be a lot of hard work for sure, like all the good things one can achieve in life. Sorry I’m sure I’m biased.</p>