<p>@ ihs76, No freshman Physics major would be expected to know the Schrodinger Equation in Quantum Mechanics, that would be for upper division Physics majors, or Einstein’s General Relativity equation for space-time curvature which is usually found only in graduate level courses. </p>
<p>Physics is an extremely difficult major and requires a very strong command of Calculus. My youngest son is also starting college as a Physics major this Fall and even though he achieved a SAT I Math score of 720, I am still concerned as to whether or not he has the math aptitude to earn a degree in Physics.</p>
<p>Son is a Junior Physics major looking at grad schools. Physics and calculus go hand in hand. Your daughter will likely need at least 3 calculus courses plus many other math courses for his major requirements. A family friend who is a Physics prof at a local uiversity told son to take as much math as he can since many of his grad students come in and aren’t up to standards. However if she is above average for her SATs for the school, works hard and gets extra help as soon as she doesn’t grasp a concept, she will do well.</p>
<p>I guess what I don’t understand is a parent, up front, dissuading a student from following her interests. I <em>do</em> understand worry about losing a scholarship… but I don’t see that happening because you can maintain a B average with one poor grade and/or you can drop a course if you realize it is not for you or over your head (and then change majors if you’ve already declared). </p>
<p>I also don’t understand dissuading a child from pursuing a challenging major when (1) she is headed to a school where she must be in the upper half? quarter? 10%? of the school’s population to have earned a merit award; (2) part of the reason for dissuading her is that she might not want to work hard and might want to put her social life as a higher priority. I don’t think that’s a very good value message to send to a kid.</p>
<p>I think people have different values. We are a family that very highly values education (two professors with seven degrees between us), but I personally think having a social life is an important aspect of college life that might not be worth sacrificing entirely (if that is what it takes for a given student in a given major). I live in a place surrounded by kids who have had NO social life for much of their childhood, as they are so consumed with lessons, tutoring, cramming, math on weekends, music several hours each night. I also think that is the wrong message to send to kids but they’d disagree with me: different values. </p>
<p>To me, life is about balance and finding the right spot for you throughout it, not putting your life on hold until ‘some day’ which usually doesn’t come. If you can’t juggle coursework and having a college life beyond it, I’m not sure it’s worth it myself. Everyone is different though. But let’s not forget, relationships and extra-curriculars and the endless cool college opportunities develop you as a person easily as much as the classes you take and the exams you ace. Those networks, lifelong relationships and the emotional intelligence/social skills you gain from them will be very valuable to one’s future career as well. Relationships also will bring far more to one’s life, far more happiness and sense of wellbeing than your job title or how much you earn ever will.</p>
<p>I’m a physics and maths joint major, weighing in.</p>
<p>Physics definitely can take a lot of work, unless it’s all very intuitive to you. That being said, you can definitely be a physics major and still have plenty of time to socialise.</p>
<p>I’d also like to note that you can not really enjoy doing calculus for itself (I’m thinking just general problem sets of integrals, DEQs, etc) but not mind it when doing physics, because in that case it’s applied to a specific problem and you can see its use, rather than just being set a random integral to solve. You see the application of the techniques you learn in the maths classes, which can make all the difference to certain people.</p>
<p>So don’t discourage her. Your daughter will realise soon enough if physics is not for her, and she should certainly have enough time to switch to a different major if she doesn’t like it. Plus, I think that scholarships can often be more lenient in your first year; the committees realise that students are just settling in during their first year.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. I am not telling her to have or not to have a social life I just know she will value that over studying, at least on weekend. She is also taking beginning chem for chem majors is that very difficult? I am pretty confident she can handle calc since she is taking it now so maybe if she can get good grades in chem calc and easy humanities it will offset any trouble in physics</p>
<p>@Muffy333: General Chemistry for Chemistry majors is an extremely difficult course and requires a huge commitment of time and energy just to pass. Taking Chemistry, Calculus and Calculus based Physics all at once during the first semester of freshman year is biting off a lot and could only be done well by an exceptional student with a very strong work ethic. You did not say what your daughter’s Math SAT score was other than it is above average for her College and we do not know what her college is. The average Math SAT score for the campuses of the University of California, which are very selective, is about 630. While that is a good score for most students, it is very marginal for a Physics major. As I said earlier my son is also starting college as a Physics major this fall and I am not sure that his SAT Math score of 720 is going to be high enough. Most colleges in the U.S. admit students that have average SAT Math scores in the 550-600 range but you would need to be at least 100 points above that to have a reasonable chance for success as a Physics major. </p>
<p>I know it sounds like I am being a very negative pessimist but I do not think that you and your daughter fully appreciate just how difficult it is going to be to get through even the first semester of college unless she is truly gifted. College Math and Science classes are much more difficult than high school classes in those subjects. Even high school AP classes that are supposedly equivalent to college courses really are not. I would hate to see her lose her scholarship because she started freshman year by taking three courses that are real absolute GPA killers.</p>
<p>Regarding chemistry: for some students this can be very challenging. I’m not sure why. My niece, who is an excellent student and received large merit awards at most of the colleges she applied to had a fair bit of trouble in freshman chem. It was her worst grade. This is often one of the weeder courses for pre-meds. I have heard from many others who seem to have trouble, as well. (My husband, a chem professor, is frequently being called upon by friends and colleagues to help their children with chem). It may be different for your daughter, but I wouldn’t put freshman chem on the list of easy courses :)</p>
<p>This schedule, or a very similar schedule, is quite typical for first year science or engineering majors. My first semester of college, I had calculus, calculus-based physics, an engineering class, and second year Chinese (I studied a little bit of Chinese in high school). It was not by any means a ridiculous schedule. Anyone pursuing a STEM major will likely have a similar schedule. Certainly, if one is not cut out to pursue such fields, such a schedule will pose difficulties, but what I’m trying to say is that it’s a very typical schedule for a physics major.</p>
<p>I recently had a chat with the dean of the math/science department at my local community college. He is a physicist, and his department routinely sends transfer students to UCs, including Berkeley, to study engineering. He said that in his experience, students who take AP Calculus in the local high schools (highly regarded Silicon Valley high schools) are often not well prepared for college calculus and physics courses. They’ve been taught calculus recipes, but they don’t understand the underlying principles. That is, even AP Calculus often isn’t good enough for college math and science. And the OP’s daughter didn’t even take AP Calculus, but some watered-down Calculus Lite. If you’re going to be a physics major, you should have been able to succeed in the highest level of calculus in your high school. </p>
<p>As a physics major, she has years of calculus classes ahead of her: Differential Calculus, Integral Calculus, Multivariable Calculus, Differential Equations, Vector Analysis. And then in her physics classes, she needs to have that calculus at her fingertips.</p>
<p>In lots of other majors, students who work hard can succeed. But in physics, you have to be smart. You have to have the mental horsepower.</p>
<p>Hmm, didn’t read in the original post that it wasn’t AP Calc. That is interesting. It doesn’t necessarily mean physics will be too hard for her, but it does raise some questions about whether she really knows just how mathematically rigorous a major physics is. </p>
<p>I took AP Calc AB in high school (couldn’t take BC). Very slow moving class, esp. compared to college level, but I had a great teacher, so it was good prep nonetheless. I found Calc II quite easy my first semester, largely in thanks to my strong high school prep. Calc III second semester was definitely a jump up in terms of difficulty, at least for me. Not my favorite, but it worked out fine. Now I’m nearing the end of Diff Eq (accelerated due to summer session), and I actually find it easier Calc III - that was the one that gave me some pause.</p>
<p>I won’t be taking too many pure math classes after this, but I would assume it’s all uphill from here.</p>
<p>Son who has a 4.0 in Physics courses and 4.0 in math did not take AP calc or AP Physics in high school. He is very smart but was a slacker in high school along with a few buddies… So, don’t let the lack of AP’s steer your daughter away from Physics if it is her passion. Everyone is gifted differently and some develop later. A good friend of mine’s husband has a Phd in engineering from a very good school but he didn’t get serious about his studies until his junior year in college. So, please let your daughter spread her wings and encourage her to be the best that she can be.</p>
<p>If she wants to major in physics, she is not going to take kindly to your telling her she can’t. Therefore, she will.</p>
<p>If I were in your position, I would encourage her to have a plan B. Make sure she will finish with enough credits to keep her scholarship even if she ends up dropping one of her courses, etc.</p>
<p>It is true that physics (and associated math) is one of those things one has to have an aptitude for. There are many, including myself, who discover that one does not have enough aptitude, and regardless of how much one studies, one is never going to ‘get it’ and move on to different majors. </p>
<p>When my son took on a course load in the freshman fall semester that he could have bombed in (the only student in his physics for physics majors who had not had AP Physics in HS etc.), I made sure he knew it could be difficult, not to take it personally if he had problems, and discussed options for drop down classes if needed. He did fine but it was hairy for a bit. </p>
<p>It will depend on many factors, the rigor of her classes, her willingness to work, her aptitude for these subjects etc etc. Make sure she understands what she could be getting into and strap in for the ride!</p>
<p>My D majored in physics in college. She’s pretty comfortable with math and, as CF said, there’s a lot of math classes involved in being a physics major. </p>
<p>One piece of advice I can give you…pay very close attention when the description of a physics class has pre-requisites, especially math pre-requisites.</p>
<p>D took part 1 of a 3 part beginning physics course and didn’t have any trouble. Part 2 had as a pre-req a certain math class and the note in the catalog said, “We don’t suggest that you take these courses concurrently.”</p>
<p>Well, you know kids and their magical thinking: “They didn’t say that I COULDN’T take the classes concurrently, just that they don’t recommend it.” She registered for them concurrently and got SLAYED in both of them! Kids…</p>
<p>A lot of kids like their high school math classes and figure to be a math major. What they don’t realize is that the math that math majors do doesn’t have any numbers in it! Same with physics–kids like their high school physics class and don’t realize that a lot of the physics that physics majors do is very theoretical. </p>
<p>I’d have her start as a physics major, take 2 calculus classes and physics part one and two the first year and then see what’s up. If she’s doing well, that’s great. Continue in physics. But by then, she could very well decide that physics, although interesting, is not her cup of tea.</p>
<p>@ Muffy 333 I think with a Math Sat of 650 she can do it but she is going to have work very hard.</p>
<p>I wish my son had the opportunity to take one Calculus or one Physics or one Chemistry class during his first semester. Unfortunately, the budget crises and the steep cuts imposed on public colleges and universities here in California has essentially destroyed the public higher education system here. It will probably be in his third year before my son can even begin to take the basic Calculus, Physics and Chemistry classes required for a degree in Physics. The public colleges and universities can only accommodate a fraction of the students who need to take these math and science courses each year after the massive layoff of faculty that have taken place. The University of California (UC) system is just a shell of what it once was and the California State University (CSU) system and the California Community College (CCC) system barely function as institutions of higher learning now. Graduation in four years is unheard of now in the public universities in California. Because it is so difficult to get the courses they need, the typical UC student can not graduate in less than five years, at least six years to get a Bachelor’s degree from a CSU and CCC students can expect to spend no less than three and often four years in their community colleges before they are able to transfer to a UC or CSU.</p>
<p>Sort of digress from the main topic, but I’ve heard many times here on CC that AP Calc is not what college calc is. That’s not true. My D took AP Calc BC in her JR year. She scored only 4 but she went ahead taking calc 3 at a nationally known college with flying color.</p>
<p>To the OP’s topic… I agreed with ellemenope. Taking calculus before calc physics is a wise choice. Heed that advice.</p>
<p>My concern for your D is that she hasn’t had AP Calc or Physics. The regents exam and college level physics for majors are not comparable. I’m also concerned that a 650 on the math SAT doesn’t really indicate the kind of math aptitude required for a physics major. That’s not to say you should discourage her from trying, but I agree with ihs76 that she should have a plan B. I say this as the parent of a physics grad.</p>