<p>Shrink, the entitlement (in admissions) is not limted to URM students, but any student who thinks that s/he deserves - - based on strong numbers, hard work, etc. - - to be admitted to any of the selective schools. In fact, the expression of that entitlement is most common among very high-scoring White applicants, who feel cheated when those with lesser numbers are admitted. </p>
<p>I was responding to CPUsci saying “worked my butt off.” Every year thousands of kids work their butts off, earning 4.0 unweighted gpas and 2300+ SAT scores only to receive rejection letters from top schools to which hooked candidates with lesser profiles are admitted. To deny the affect of the hook and insist, “I earned it” is not only inaccurate, but, IMHO, an expression of entitlement. </p>
<p>Hooked students earned the grades/scores that put them in the running. But if you presented a lesser academic profile than other candidates, it was a non-academic factor – where you live (geog), the fact that parents didn’t attend college (gen status) or fact that parents attended the school in question (legacy) - - that put you over the top. Race is one of those factors. And if you have more than one hook, goody for you. </p>
<p>I understand the schools’ interest in all of the hooks; I would never deny the value of the hook or be ashamed of it. To the contrary, I often view White parents’ complaints about the race hook as a teachable moment - - I enumerate the other hooks, noting that if their White child[ren] had applied from ND, SD, WY or anywhere other than the tri-state region s/he/they would have fared better (so maybe the parents should be givin’ the evil eye to applicant families from Iowa and Arizona).</p>
<p>My goodness! This thread took a turn that seems very different from what the OP was seeking.</p>
<p>Nil, your threads in the past have reflected a deep-seated insecurity. Now, while I’m not one to indulge in armchair psychiatry, I do think that you should sit down with yourself for a while, write down what you’ve earned thus far, look at the general state of things in American education, then re-appraise your accomplishments, because you’re allowing thoughts of inferiority to control you, and that can’t be healthy. </p>
<p>If you carry yourself with pride and know what you have and why you have it, then no negative comments can take that from you. As for your detractors, ignore them - they’re simply not worth your time. For God’s sake, grow a backbone before you get bent out of shape any more!</p>
<p>Feel free to pm me if you’d like to discuss ways to deal with haters. :)</p>
<p>^^ I agree. Sometimes it may seem difficult to tell people where you were accepted. For some people, it is simply none of their business, and people who will reduce your achievements to your ethnicity are not your true friends anyway. Their own jealousy and insecurity should not make you any less proud of your achievement. Good luck with wherever you decide to go though. :)</p>
<p>The value of the hook is often quite significant and I suspect “not huge” is an understatement - - I couldn’t say for sure w/o knowing the URM student’s stats and the stats of other successful applicants. But looknig at the scores necessary for Nat Ach Scholarship commendation and that for NMS commendation gives you a hint of the difference (likewise the difference b/c profile necessary for actual scholarship under each program).</p>
<p>"often quite significant and I suspect “not huge” is an understatement "</p>
<p>A better measure might vary with the school.</p>
<p>What schools and how many AA students attending? I think it’s the same 200-400 kids who get all the “boosts”.</p>
<p>But whatever.You have your priorities, and I have mine.</p>
<p>To me, what is more important, is what percentage of AA kids benefit. I’ve met one. In that same time, I’ve met at least 200 for whom none of this applies.</p>
<p>How much of a boost will vary from school to school, but with the more competitive schools (which were the subject of post), the boost is significant because the competition is so keen. The differene between 1300 and 1450 (CR/M) might not matter much for admission to most schools, but for the most selective schools, the lower score will likely put you out of the running w/o a hook. And ANY boost that could be dispositive- - no matter how small numerically - - is significant. </p>
<p>But the universe of schools is far more than the top 10 unis/LACs. And most students attend their first choice college - - a school in the state uni system. So I agree, Shrinkrap; it’s probably the same 200-400 URM kids (including OP and CPUscientisit) applying to top schools and getting most of the boost, since for most URM students (like their White counterparts) are applying state or less-competitive schools where AA is not much of a factor. And like you, I wish more URM students benefited from AA.</p>
<p>If you believe that old but oft quoted paper about the “points added” to African Americans sat’s at certain schools, it specifically said most go to the kids scoring 1500/1600. </p>
<p>This year that would be less than one percent of 196,961, the number black students taking the SAT.</p>
<p>That probably means MUCH less than one percent of all black 18 year olds.</p>
<p>And to take advantage, they have to have GPA’s and some EC’s to go with. Add to that that these kids may not be Pell poor, but still can’t afford elite schools, and the percentage of black kids benefiting seems small from where I sit. </p>
<p>But I totally get I am sitting in a relatively unique place.</p>
<p>So are the kids in the AA student forum, and I think they should be able to come to this forum and “say it here.”</p>
<p>I just wish more URM kids graduated high school, let alone attend and finished college</p>
<p>Be loud and be proud and ignore the haters!
In life take any advantage that is offered you.</p>
<p>I am sure that some of those opinions that you are worried about will have opportunities not available to others , many will get a job from a family connection , some will go to a university because mom and dad can pay full tuition , some will get into grad school because of an alumni recommendation and some will get by in life because of their beauty.</p>
<p>This is your big break , now it is up to you to take advantage.
In 20 years when you have that Ivy League diploma hanging on the wall in your office the haters opinions will not mean a thing.</p>
<p>For the 95-100 kids in my “sample” - - my 2 Ds, their URM classmates (and sibs) and friends’/colleagues’ kids over the past 4-5 years - - it was more like 150+ “points added,” (1350-1400/1600 for most schools). Moms on the park-bench still talk about 100 points, but that’s 100 points in general, not just 100 points to URM students scoring 1480-1500.</p>
<p>Whether 100 points or 150+, for most students, it’s a non-issues. And I’m with you, Shrinkrap - - wish there were not only more URM students graduating from ANY college, but more URM hs grads, as well.</p>
<p>Also, wishing OP and CPUscientist well in the admissions game (decisions next this week?)</p>
<p>Foolishpleasure you know 95 urms that took the SAT’s? That’s amazing. Where are you? I don’t even Know 100 URMs going to college! My sorority invites all of the AA kids to a baccalaureate in June.</p>
<p>There are lots of public high schools in NYC where over 100 URM students take the SAT and enroll in college (primarily CUNY/SUNY) every year! At D2’s magnet-type school (enrollment 1500, approx 25%URM) many of the students choose a private school or a flaghisp OOS State U (UMass-Amherst was very popular); but few, regardless of race, apply to top 20 LACs/unis. </p>
<p>My “sample” included only those kids whose families I knew very well (we all shared stats and admissions info w/ each other).</p>
<p>Darling, you have to be proud of yourself. Obviously you are not receiving likely letters just because you are black. You had to have earned great grades and have done some extraordinary things in your community; in other words, you had to have worked hard! Your successes are noteworthy and you ought to be proud of yourself. </p>
<p>This was posted on myfb page It was a word shared with me I want to share it with you. </p>
<p>“it doesn’t matter what everyone else thinks. People are always judging each other and, the truth is, they’re not very good at it. Don’t put a lot of concern into what people think of you. You weren’t created to please and entertain everyone. You were created to be you, so feel good about yourself.”</p>
<p>Believe me, you have so much to feel good about!!! No one can take away your accomplishments no matter how hard they try!</p>
<p>It’s great to have a forum for these concerns! I can appreciate how degrading the OP – and countless others – feel/have felt. there’s been great advice given on this forum to deal with the inevitable nonsense, ignorance and hatred surrounding black achievement.</p>
<p>Don’t feel bad… i haven’t told any of my friends i applied to NYU… idk if im even going to get in… ugh im just so depressed already… i really want to get in i find out tomorrow</p>
<p>Some folks will try to degrade your success by claiming its a result of affirmative action. Other blacks may try to degrade you for thinking your special, no longer one of the group.</p>
<p>Neither side really has any power over you unless a part of you thinks it’s true.</p>
<p>Don’t listen to the naysayers. Be happy and celebrate.</p>
<p>Friday, my son got accepted EA to the University of Michigan. </p>
<p>His H.S. is 80%+ white, and some of his classmates got accepted and many deferred. </p>
<p>We talked to him about the possibility of people questioning his getting in, and how he should handle that. He told us, “if anyone asks, I’ll gladly tell them my GPA because I’m proud of my accomplishment.” Yesterday, he wore a new sweatshirt with a huge block M on it, and a bright maize & blue U-of-M hat to school with pride. He isn’t at all fazed by what people think.</p>
<p>Be proud of your accomplishment. Don’t hide it! If you do, you just feed into the idea that you are somehow inferior, which is absurd. The only people that will try to degrade you are most likely the ones who DIDN’T GET IN. The students who get in will celebrate with you.</p>
<p>You can’t go through life in fear or in hiding because you are afraid of what people may think or say. That is a horrible way to live.</p>
<p>I know that feel, bro’. I’m not even sure if I want to apply to my top choices because I can almost guarantee that, if accepted, I’ll be subjected to four years of my peers incessantly reiterating that I gained my spot solely because of Affirmative Action. Know what’s worse? I’ll actually believe them. I’m already starting to. </p>
<p>I spent years in high school hearing from whites and Asians how inferior blacks are with regards to intelligence. Elite, shmeet. These students at Ivies and similar schools are mostly snobbish, closeted racists. I’m sick of it. -__-</p>