<p>Just got financial aid letter- nothing other than merit aid. Which would be fine, except I'm considering other schools that seem to offer the same education for what will turn out to be a much lower price. </p>
<p>Rather than only comparing Rice to the Ivies or need-based only schools, there are also many schools of Rice's caliber that offer merit aid and in much larger quantities than the relatively stingy merit awards Rice gives. I agree with some earlier comments that the lower sticker price only helps people who can pay full freight-- otherwise, everyone else who doesn't get a ton of need-based ends up paying essentially the same amount. I'm still considering Rice, but the lack of significant merit scholarships and the increasing price are definitely major drawbacks.</p>
<p>Per USNews, Rice's average cost after grants is $18,322. This cost is less than the average costs at the following schools: MIT, Duke, Dartmouth, Penn, JHU, WUStl, Chicago, Brown, Notre Dame and Cornell, inter alia. In fact, Its "Best Value" rank of 14th is only that low because a relatively low percentage (36%) of Rice students receive grants, which is a result of the already low tuition. </p>
<p>So yea, I'd hardly say that Rice's financial aid isn't good. Maybe the OP messed up his/her fafsa or something...who knows.</p>
<p>On a side note, have any people admitted from ID received their financial aid awards? Should I just expect mine in april?</p>
<p>I think we all need to stop complaining about how "little" Rice gives out in terms of financial aid. Sometimes in the midst of college frenzy, we lose track of how colleges don't necessarily have to give us anything. We don't have any right to demand money from universities. The fact that their financial aid policies are need-based is very generous and we should be grateful for the fact that we are even getting any money in the first place. They are giving us money so that we can all have the opportunity to study in a world-class university, and I believe that we should appreciate that.</p>
<p>And I think it's rather presumptuous to say things like "aid package from this school is not good"... what you got on your one package is not enough evidence to judge Rice's financial aid policies for everyone else. Besides, most people haven't heard back from private universities yet, so try to relax. Look at what other colleges are willing to offer you, and then make your judgments.</p>
<p>That is one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is as a marketplace for strong students. Certain universities have differentiated themselves, e.g., HYPS, in the market and do not have to give monetary incentives to attract the very best students. Other strong schools, Rice among them, do not have the same notoriety, and must compete on other basis for the very best students.</p>
<p>Historically, Rice has competed by being the best value in Texas and by being a best value school. It also gives out copious amounts of merit aid to top students. </p>
<p>If you or your child is a top student, s/he can expect to be wooed by many schools. This student has a shot at HYPS level programs. For Rice to attract these students and students from outside Texas, it needs to either offer significant merit aid or promise lower overall costs.</p>
<p>Thus, we are talking about consumers with market power. You have choices, and unless Rice has a unique program or experience that no other university has, if Rice does not produce an adequate package, you should go to a place that does. For Rice to remain competitive for strong students outside the Texas area, it must stay competitive on the financial dimension. Do not be deceived, It does have to give strong students money.</p>
<p>Cavalier, you identified schools that Rice ranked better than on the best-value dimension. I notice that it ranks below HYPS. However, it ranks as a better value than most of the schools I would identify as peer institutions (Duke, Emory, Notre Dame, John Hopkins, Vanderbilt, WUStl etc.). Interestingly, with a couple of exceptions, the average costs of these schools is within $1500 of Rice (WUStl is $3000 more!). This reinforces the point that several have made here: unless you're paying full freight, price should not be a factor in making your decision at this university tier level.</p>
<p>Exactly, Gator - price doesn't have to be a consideration, necessarily.</p>
<p>But value sure should be!</p>
<p>Look closely at the education being offered to you by Rice, and by the other schools that you are applying to. What are you getting for your money at each? Which is the best value for you, not for USNEWS?</p>
<p>Although I am surely biased, I believe that even if Rice cost exactly the same price as HYP, etc., which it will for many of these students, it would still be a better value. I honestly do not believe that for me, there was any school where I would have gotten a better education, more opportunities, etc. Rice does, as you state it must, have unique programs and offers a unique experience. I think all of us on this board recognize that, or we wouldn't be here!</p>
<p>Gator, I understand your way of looking at it, about how people have choices and that Rice needs to be financially competitive to get the top students. However, I think we're talking about different things. You're talking about how a school needs to do certain things to woo certain students, with the assumption that Rice's financial aid isn't that great. I'm talking about the people who start complaining about Rice's financial aid when we haven't even heard back from most colleges yet, and the fact that maybe we should look at the whole process with a different perspective because complaining about it definitely won't help your situation.</p>
<p>Jenskate, I agree value is definitely an important thing, except that few applicants realize that. Most people who apply to Rice and HYPS don't think that Rice is a better value, and that's why most applicants would choose those schools over Rice.</p>
<p>No, I am not assuming that Rice's financial aid is bad.</p>
<p>Almost all schools claim that tuition does not cover 100% of costs. If this is true, then all schools provide 100% of its students with some financial aid. Rice, with a lower tuition to start with, provides an even bigger subsidy than comparable schools. My concern, not complaint, is that I fear that the subsidy will decline. Clearly, Rice can do whatever it wants to do. I just don't want my S and family to commit to Rice if they opt to go in a different direction.</p>
<p>Jen is correct that all else equal, Rice is still a better value for many than, at least some of, HYPS. I've heard many horror stories of students getting to H and discovering that many of their classes are taught by TAs. Moreover, many famous professors that you hear about do not teach undergrad classes or don't want to spend any time with undergrads. Add to that the elitist preppy attitude that permeates some of these schools (how's that for a sweeping generalization!), I suspect that many would be better served at Rice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My concern, not complaint, is that I fear that the subsidy will decline.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That concern is predicated on the slippery-slope fallacy.</p>
<p>Edit: I need to qualify that statement; if there has been a repeated subsidy-decline in the preceding years, barring inevitable economic circumstances such as inflation, then the fear is well-founded.</p>
<p>We are one of those families paying essentially "full freight", minus the very small NMF money he gets. The outside scholarships that s. won were nice, but are only one year scholarships, and will disappear next year (well actually one came in this year and will go towards next year's tuition. He applied ED, and wasn't enticed with $$$. </p>
<p>Our s. had lots of $$ thrown at him from other schools as a NMF, and I encouraged him to look at U of F (I went there for grad school and still have friends in Gainesville, some of whom my s. knows as we've visited with them frequently). However,the thought of a school of 40K students just overwhelmed him. He could have gone to our in-state schools for virtually nothing (one a large U, one a well respected Tech school) but when we weighed everything, Rice was not only the best fit, but really, in our eyes, the best value. Value isn't always measured in dollars. </p>
<p>I am not thrilled that Rice's tuition is rising, but we knew about the lifting of the cap in tuition thet Jenskate mentioned going into it. This wasn't a surprise. When the school decided to stay a Div.I sports school, the need for more $$ to stay fiscally responsible was evident. There is a very large study done on the cost of the sports program (I believe its available on the web), but despite the costs that were clearly spelled out, students, staff, the board and alums voted not to change the Div. status. Not an easy choice, all things considered. There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument.</p>
<p>I also hear that there are plans to replace the aging gym, to build a bioengineering facility that will connect to the hospitals across the street, and to increase the ranking of the engineering school in the country (goal is to be #4). That will also take more $$ to allow for more $$ to be available to be competitive and to attract the top level faculty and grad students. Nothing comes cheap. </p>
<p>I believe the long term plans are in the best interests of the school,and as painful as it is to write those big tuition checks, I do so gladly (well, you know what I mean) and with my eyes open.</p>
<p>jym626 very nice post. The OP is whinning about 10% difference. Rice has its ambition/constraints, you have your ambition/constraints. If they overlap fine or go somewhere where they meet. Personally, I think Div 1 decision was bad, but people who make decisions are lot smarter than me.</p>
<p>Thanks, Simba.
Here's a link to a portion of the article in the Wall Street Journal about the cost of the sports program at Rice. If you want to read the full article, you need to register with WSJ (no cost). </p>
<p>Simba, I agree that I think the decision to stay Div. I wasn't a good one, but I am a parent of a student just entering, not a diehard alum with lots of $$ to donate. Plus, with the change in leadership at Rice this year, it was probably not politically wise to change presidents and the sports status in the same year. And, of course, no one asked me for my opinion :)</p>
<p>This [the full article is available on Lexis-Nexis] newspaper article last year sheds some additional light on the athletics problem It may be that Rice's committment to its new conference, C-USA, affiliation makes it difficult to drop football immediately. </p>
<p>With the size of Rice's losses, it's difficult to believe that they can continue playing DI football much longer.</p>
<p>Charleston Gazette (West Virginia)
May 6, 2004, Thursday
SECTION: Sports; Pg. P5B</p>
<p>HEADLINE: Budget woes put Rice football program in jeopardy</p>
<p>BYLINE: Doug Smock</p>
<p>[I removed the passage because I wasn't sure if posting it violates the forum's rules].</p>
<p>3.4 MM=283 trustee scholarships at 12,000 each and about 25 point boost in SAT. This year Rice was courting a dumber than a door knob kid from my son's HS with no so good athletic ability. They need to field a team.</p>
<p>It is pretty sad that there is so much inertia against getting rid of a clear money drain (among other things). </p>
<p>I believe a report last year indicated that there are fewer than 3 dozen football programs that make money from their program. A large number of the 3 dozen, I suspect, are in the black solely from revenue-sharing by being a member of a Bowl Championship Conference (Vanderbilt, perhaps?).</p>
<p>Another article stated that only about 500 current Rice students attend football games. The faculty oppose the football program, so has does DI football,currently losing $3.4M/yr, advance the University's interests?</p>
<p>There was a discussion about revamping how football $$ is doled out for all Div I schools-- it isn't fair that the Div I schools who go to the bowls get most of the $$, and the other Div I schools suffer. If that gets revisited and a fairer distribution of $$ explored, then things may be diffrent. However, I doubt the discussion about Rice's sports status is over. Just this chapter-- Stay tuned.</p>
<p>D received her financial aid letter today. I have a few comments as well as a few questions.. first the EFC was ONE dollar less that our FAFSA EFC (which I felt was very high but it is what it is). The expected budget (as posted earlier) was $35,876 which includes:</p>
<p>Fees: 436
Tuition: 23310
Room and Board: 8980
Books and Supplies: 800
Misc. 1550
Transportation: 800</p>
<p>They subtracted our EFC (parental contribution) and Student contribution (1151) and gave the TOTAL remaining cost to her in a Rice tuition grant (not that the grant was large but I was surprised no loans, work study, etc first before grant) . I felt it was more than fair (although I still have NO idea how we will be able to pay our EFC). The letter also says that any scholarships or grants she receives that are not sponsored by Rice will "first replace an equivalent amount of the self-help portion of your aid and then reduce your tuition grant".. Does this mean that if D receives any outside scholarships they will be applied to our EFC (or parental contribution) i.e. they would reduce what we have to pay?? Up to the amount of our EFC? That is the way I read it but from what I have read on here it seems that most schools subtract outside scholarships from grants first? Secondly, why no unsubsidized Stafford loan? The other school that D received so far offered her only scholarship money and the unsubsidized Stafford Loan. Surprised Rice didn't. Is this something D can get on her own? We will be paying most of the freight but would like D to take on some of the cost (i.e. paying something towards her education). We still have to hear from a few colleges but trying to get a feel for each one as they come in.. want to make best decision possible i.e. value. One other interesting thing.. with respect to the grant the letter also said that "if you are selected as a Rice Merit Scholar, the Rice award will replace a portion of your Rice Tuition Grant" (LOL, guess it didnt' matter that D wasn't Merit Scholar (only commended) because in reality wouldn't have changed the cost (still getting same money that doesn't have to be paid back). All in all I felt that Rice was more than fair. Just have a bit of a problem with our high EFC.</p>
<p>DD was in similar situation, and we contacted Rice and they clarified for us. If I were you, I would email the questions to Rice financial Aid, and ask for answers, then print out the answers so that you have it it WRITING. Ask how her aid will change through the 4 years - how much of grants will be replaced by loans and workstudy in coming years, and is there a minimum GPA needed to keep this all-grant Financial Aid.
Regarding your situation- your daughter has no "self-help" (loans and workstudy). Since Rice is meeting all your need, if she gets outside scholarships, her grant will be reduced. (no gain to you. this is the way most of the colleges do it. You still have to pay your EFC.) However, Rice says in its info that they can offer a student additional loans, if a student wishes to take on debt and help the parents meet EFC. (I forget where I read it, but it is somewhere in the financial aid info online.) And CONGRATULATIONS on the great FA package. They are meeting all your need with no loans or work-study. That way, your daughter can choose to take an on-campus job and earn some money towards her expenses. (Granted, this will increase her income, which will affect her FA in a small way the following year, but she still comes out ahead.)</p>
<p>Isandin: Rice's package was the best my DD was offered, (she's current Freshman), and Rice had the most reasonable estimates for personal expenses, books, etc. so that the budget used for establishing financial aid was higher than some other schools in those areas. (This is a good thing) Some LACs she applied to only "budgeted" $400 for books, and $800 for personal expenses - so we had less "need", therefore less FA offered by LAC schools. We've been very happy with the FA at Rice!</p>