Aim: Yale law school. Undergraduate in Canada or the US?

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>Hello!
Like countless others, I a very passionate about law and Yale appeals to me like no other.
I'm in Grade 11.
I visited McGill and really liked the campus, the environment and want to major there in International development.</p>

<p>Now I'm also applying to Barnard, NYU, U Chicago and maybe Cornell and Duke.</p>

<p>1) Would my undergrad significantly affect my graduate chances?
2) Would it be easier to have a higher GPA at either of those countries?
3)Would it be easier to get letters of recommendations, internships in a country?
4) At a school like Barnard with 3000 people and at McGill with 25000 people, how does that affect me?
5) Anything else I should consider?</p>

<p>I understand that it all depends on me and how I make the most of my opportunities.
I also understand that apart from having a good GPA and LSAT, one needs to shine through. Would it be easier to do so in the US?</p>

<p>I have heard of students from McGill making it to the Yale Law school. But is it significantly harder than from a US university?</p>

<p>If not, I see no reason to spend quarter the amount of money!
Thank you!</p>

2

<p>1) If by this question you mean the reputation of your undergraduate institution, then no. And even if it did, McGill’s name does carry some weight among American grad committees.</p>

<p>2) Broadly speaking, it will be much easier to attain a high GPA at an American college than at McGill. Grade inflation is a significant problem at the undergraduate level in the US; it is not the case at McGill generally. </p>

<p>Some of this might come down to the stream that you choose in IDS. Poli Sci is statistically speaking one of the hardest departments in McGill Arts to get an A in, and choosing the States/Governance stream will expose you to the largest amount of Poli Sci courses. Choosing Culture/Society on the other hand will expose you to more ethnography, which are generally easier to do well in grade-wise.</p>

<p>There are also some American institutions that have begun trying to curb grade inflation (Princeton?); I would recommend trying to do some digging on the grading policy of those American colleges to which you are applying. If there is an indication of a curve - something like, “We strive to maintain B/B- averages in all of our classes” - then you’ll know that a high CGPA won’t necessarily be a cakewalk there, like it is at most American unis.</p>

<p>Having said all that, McGill transcripts do show the class averages for each course in addition to the grade you attained; that means that if committees (if they’re thorough) could see, for example, that your one B+ was in a class where the average was a C, they might be more forgiving. No guarantees that they will be thorough of course.</p>

<p>3) Letters of recommendation aren’t restricted by nationality silly! =P And I don’t know what how the experience at big vs small would differ in this case; large faculties means more profs with whom to bond, but small faculties means it’s easier to make those interpersonal connections. </p>

<p>Ostensibly there are more internship opportunities in the States. It’s a bigger country after all, with ten times the number of people. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t find one here of course, though if I had a penny every time I read through an internship posting only to read “Open to American citizens only” at the bottom…</p>

<p>4) See above. How much you’d enjoy each atmosphere also depends on your own personality. Do you intuitively think you’d enjoy being in a vibrant, diverse campus, or a cozier, tight-knit one? </p>

<p>5) I’m sure there are McGill students that have gone to Yale Law, just as I’m sure there are McGill students who have gone to almost anywhere I can imagine. But I’ve seen the minimum GPA requirements for the top American law schools, and I can tell you that not many McGill students are going to be able to hit that mark.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much HieronymusBosch. I was thinking along the same lines. sigh. I really liked McGill. The only thing I was worried about was the size of their classes. And small class sizes are so appealing say at a college like Barnard. Getting into an American institution is significantly tougher; what with the SATs, extracurricular and essays. But I figured that for Grad school in the US, it probably will be worth it. Thanks again!</p>

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<p>It won’t really matter. Trust me, if you have no connections, you stand a very low chance even with a 4.0GPA + 175LSAT.</p>

5

<p>Np! Good luck =)</p>

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<p>Why would you say that arghwhy?</p>

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<p>Trust me, you know very little about how these admissions work. YLS will probably accept 0 - 2 students from each university. These students are either hooked or are so outstanding that YLS simply can’t reject them. I know this may seem bleek, but you’ll realize this when you start studying. Of course, perhaps now you know this, you’ll work harder and be that 1 student from McGill or wherever that makes it. Remember, only 20% of the entering YLS is directly from undergrad. Perhaps, you’ll also realize this when get your admission results from the undergrad schools. I’m not trying to sound mean or anything but universities must cater to themselves. They want a diverse group which makes students from overrepressented countries that much harder to get into US schools.</p>

<p>In short, it doesn’t really matter- all entering YLS are exceptionally smart (it doesn’t really matter what undergrad they attended).</p>

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<p>And you, as a 17 year old high school graduate, know all about this of course.</p>

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<p>Although it’s fine to have Yale as a dream law school, I wouldn’t recommend focussing so closely on it at this point in your academic career. Or any other law school, for that matter. The chances of being accepted at YLS are very slim. At this point, you should be choosing an undergrad school that you’d be happy attending and where you can study subjects that interest you and where you can do well. If you’re still interested in law in a few years, that’s the time to start preparing well for the LSAT and doing your research re: law schools.</p>

<p>Two other questions you should ask yourself.

  1. Why you want to attend school in the U.S. and incur the large amount of debt. Unless you are a dual citizen, you will not be eligible for any federal aid, and costs in the U.S. compared to Canada are astronomical.</p>

<ol>
<li>Why YLS. Do you want to practice in the U.S.? Are you familiar with the current state of legal employment there, which is likely to be affected for years to come?</li>
</ol>

<p>MakeADifference, maybe I’m not remembering correctly but were you not the one posting in another thread about applying for an LLB in the UK? You would be making a big mistake if you take that route, if you have any possible plan to return to Canada or the U.S. to work. A UK LLB, with no prior undergrad degree, is not enough to practice in Canada, and I’m doubtful it would be in the U.S. either. The NCA process wouldn’t help you with that route, trust me.</p>

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<p>Yes, let’s make sure to undermine the aspirations of everyone who comes to post. Goals are overrated. </p>

<p>If you want to make your point, then say something along the lines of, “make sure to have a backup plan!” But I’m sure your way provided you with deliciously anonymous schadenfreude.</p>

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<p>I wasn’t undermining anyone’s aspirations, HB. It’s fine to have aspirations but it’s essential to be informed about the likelihood of success with those aspirations, especially as a 16 or 17 year old student. Preparing well for those dreams is important, it’s never wise to focus solely on one school, and that was the point of my post. I have a husband, a daughter and many in my extended family who are lawyers, and know hundreds more. This isn’t a profession to enter into without extensive research, which the OP is starting. This is a good thing, but it’s important, also, to explore all aspects of a particular path, and to perhaps identify aspects that you may not have considered, based on the advice of those who are more knowledgeable.</p>

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<p>As I wrote above, if your actual point was to say “it’s never wise to focus solely on one school,” then that’s what you should have said. I’m not doubting your intentions, but the way you chose to communicate your message was extremely insensitive bordering on condescending. OP has 5-6 years to decide whether Yale is a likely possibility, and she/he certainly does not need you to decide for them.</p>

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<p>Oh, for Pete’s sake. No one was making decisions for the OP. He/She came here with questions, looking for information. If a student simply wants to hear a sugar-coated version of the limited amount that they already know and to have others do the cheerleading oh yes no problem you’ll def get in! schtick, they can get that from other students. If they truly seek to learn what they need to know, some honest and useful information is what they really need.</p>

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<p>No one’s doubting the quality of your information, so I’m not sure why you’re getting so flustered. I just don’t see how your advise to not focus on law school as a goal (“I wouldn’t recommend focussing [sic] so closely on it at this point in your academic career. Or any other law school, for that matter”) is “useful.” In fact, it’s rather bad advice. </p>

<p>But of course, this is the point where I’m supposed to acquiesce to “those who are more knowledgeable.” Silly me, forgetting that goal-setting is now a “schtick” for “cheerleaders.”</p>

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<p>HieronymusBosch, you need to calm down. I’m not implying that I know all about how these admissions work. I’m just giving my perspective to the OP. The OP doesn’t appear to be that well-informed and may be chasing aspirations that turn up in a dead end. </p>

<p>Furthermore, it appears that the OP doesn’t really know much about law. OP states no reason for really wanting to get into YLS except that it really appeals to him/her (I’m guessing prestige). And how does the OP know that she/he is really passionate about law?</p>

<p>Alwaysamom and I are simply giving the OP a taste of reality.</p>

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<p>I took law last semester and I’ve never been this interested in a subject before. I don’t want to be a lawyer (as of now) but I want to study law. I have my undergraduate figured out or so I think now! </p>

<p>I just wanted to aim the highest I could, you know? I’m currently working very hard for a reach undergraduate program. So I was just inquiring for Yale, I checked their website out and it got me very excited. So I thought, why not make that a goal and work towards it? Even if I fail, I’d probably end up among the stars! (:</p>

<p>Thanks HieronymusBosch for the encouragement! And thanks for being so nice too.</p>

<p>Thanks arghwhy for your insight. Yes, I’m only in grade 11. Yale certainly has a lot to do with prestige but more than that I just wanted a really high goal to work towards! As of now, I really liked law!</p>

<p>Thanks alwaysamom, reality check really helped. I’m a Bangladeshi Canadian. Eventually I want to go back to Bangladesh and work there. A degree from Canada/America/UK would just be as prestigious there. Apparently, I can relate more to Bangladesh’s law with an LLB. As of now, I’m certain I want to go work there. But it’s not a very stable country which is why I wanted to keep the option of working in Canada open. Currently, thanks to God there is no issue with financial aid. </p>

<p>Your insight has been really helpful! I don’t have any lawyers in my family. It’s true that I’m only seventeen and was just curious about law school. As of now I’m just wondering that if (big if) I get accepted to a school in the US with say small classes, would the quadruple tuition be worth it in the future?</p>

<p>I know I’m too young to be thinking of grad school, I know my mind might change, I know, I know. I was just wondering about the future and wondering which might be the best possible route.</p>

<p>I thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions! Have a great day! (:</p>

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<p>Well, the issue with attending law schools in different countries is fairly obvious - laws are different. Many nations won’t recognize foreign law degrees. Something in Canada may not be valid in Bangladesh or America or Britain. As an example, some of Canada’s most prestigious law schools aren’t recognized in a vast majority of American states (you can only pass the bar/practice law in New York, Mass., California with a York degree etc). This could easily apply to American schools as well. </p>

<p>Perhaps it would be best of you to examine the recognition/accreditation behind various law degrees before pursuing your studies.</p>