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Michigan
Price: $120K total w in-state tuition
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does that include the tuition hike once the eng’g student reaches 55 credits (including AP…which for many students can be during their frosh year)?
Mich is arguably worth $80K more than Bama <<<
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That would be a hard argument to make.
“does that include the tuition hike once the eng’g student reaches 55 credits (including AP…which for many students can be during their frosh year)?”
mom2collegekids, the tuition hike is negligible relative to the total coast of attendance. We are talking approximately $1,800/year over two years, which works out to 3-5% of the total cost over four years.
As for whether or not Michigan is worth $80k more than Alabama, that would depend on the family. Michigan offers a completely difference experience when it comes to classmates, faculty, resources, research opportunities, graduate school placement and on-campus corporate recruitment. Families that do not have the means would likely find it hard to argue in favor of spending an extra $80k, regardless of the university. On the other hand, families with the means could easily justify spending that money in a university like Michigan.
I’m with @ucbalumnus. A business degree in/with engineering before your first job would not wow me in the least. Just getting ChemE degree will probably kick his booty pretty good, regardless of whether he’s afraid of working hard.
I’d think long an hard about UA. Did you promise to send him to any of his choices (assuming they are all affordable)? What does HE think?
@mom2collegekids @Alexandre , the Michigan tuition hike is not relevant partly because we purchased a 4 year prepaid tuition plan (whose cash-out value I included in the calculations) for any Michigan public college. It covers 4 years of tuition and fees at in-state rates without regard to lower/upper class status. So in a sense the tuition is covered in both schools. What we are struggling is to quantify the value difference between those two schools, in particular the items Alexandre has raised. For instance, the not only engineering but big consulting firms like McKinsey and BCG recruit from Michigan, and research at Michigan is prolific. After our visit to Bama there is more of a UG teaching focus, less research, newer facilities, but the faculty quality , grad school placement and recruitment are less clear. Bama’s administration is very impressive, but so is Michigan’s.
Nm, I don’t have the time.
Michigan sounds like a great opportunity and within your budget. We faced this with our UVa kid (we were full pay instate), He had some interest in a couple of top privates that did not give merit aid and would have been much more expensive for our family, We did not think they were worth paying significantly more for them when we had such a good instate option. He really didn’t express any interest in places he would have likely gotten good merit aid as he preferred going to UVa , so we did not push him on looking for money elsewhere. So, UVa was in the middle of cost for our family and we were willing to pay. As Alexandre says, it is not that a school like Michigan is necessarily worth 80,000 more than Alabama but if a family has the means to send their kid there, it is certainly a very good choice. And you had already taken the steps necessary to finance an instate tuition with a prepaid plan so it sounds like you have always been willing to finance the cost of your instate options. And you certainly have very good instate options in Michigan.
Of course, if your son prefers Alabama to Michigan, all the better and it IS cheaper. It sounds like a great school. Good luck with the decision.
@sevmom Yes, we told him we would finance his in-state UG in full, anything beyond that we would consider but not promise, anything less he could keep the excess money. The prepaid plans were quite a bargain when the stock market was roaring in the 90’s and they could be cashed out for use in a different state, but Michigan represented the best value (because of high instate tuition relative to other Michigan public universities) for that particular plan.
Honestly, my wife and I are reeling a bit from full price sticker shock for the private universities and are thankful we have a great in-state option.
Thanks for all of your input. He is leaning strongly toward Michigan. At least he doesn’t need to replace his wardrobe that way.
It is tough I think for very high stats kids from states with excellent schools. They are bombarded with stuff. My older kid in Virginia , although about 10 years ago, right before more of the financial aid reforms for less wealthy families, got so much info from some Ivy schools, places like Vanderbilt, Duke, and USC. But we got really no outreach at the time from UVa, his preferred instate option, although he had strong interest in attending. It can be tough for a 17 or 18 year old kid to realize that their instate option like Michigan may be the best when they think their peers, teachers, think they could be reaching higher. Many of them want the love. Has Michigan reached out to your son? We were always good with helping to fund the equivalent of an instate education but made it clear that more than that was on them. Some people are willing to sacrifice anything for their kids’ education and I admire that but we were not able or willing to do so. If you are wealthy or can get good financial aid or merit aid, college options definitely open up for a child.
You did what we did in terms of what we said-we would help fund instate costs but would have to consider what to do beyond that. We were upfront that he would probably have to take more financial stake in financing a private education. He opted for UVa early and did not apply to any expensive privates. He had some athletic interest from some top schools but they gave no merit aid or athletic scholarships. We are fairly frugal and had a younger child to consider. It’s a very personal choice, given family finances and how far the money needs to stretch. All the best.
@sevmom. The Michigan director of admissions came twice to his high school and basically outlined everything needed to be admitted. He spent about 90 min in his presentation and answering questions. His HS college counselor gave presentations on how to fill out the Michigan apps and how to meet the EA deadlines. In his HS, 90% apply, about 2/3rds are admitted, and about 70% of those enroll so Michigan becomes the most common choice. And as you said, he got torrents of brochures from other schools for months, recruiting calls, etc. etc. Michigan sent a postcard or two. Our other big state university , MSU, offered super early preferred admission and 1 week applications processing. Overall, I think they both did a very good job in convincing the kids to stay in-state.
My info in terms of UVa is old and they seem to be doing more in terms of reaching out to kids these days-with admissions blogs, there is an admissions dean on the UVa forum here, etc. I think UVa came to our school once but it is a large diverse urban school. They may have some schools that they target more. Only about 10 or less kids a year end up at UVa from our high school. Not that many apply in comparison to some schools (like TJ in Northern Virginia). There was no personal outreach or phone calls, letters from anyone in admissions to my son but as I said that was a few years ago. Not sure they need to do that as much with instate kids (sounds like Michigan just sends a postcard or two). Sounds similar in terms of getting much more info, brochures, emails,etc. from other schools. My son applied ED (when they still had it) so I guess there really was no reason to contact him. They knew he was coming! Admissions even told ED kids not to come to accepted students day type events because they were already committed to coming . I’m glad they moved to EA. My son did get an invitation before application time to attend an event held in our city that UVa reps were at but it was part of a bunch of schools that were touring together-Harvard, Duke, Penn , Georgetown and UVa if I recall correctly.
Your son has some great options! Good luck with this tough decision.
OP what is the ‘value’ being sought? Degree from ABET school.
It is one thing if you have an extra $80K laying around and you ‘want’ MI. Can you imagine how much $80K will grow in a reasonable investment?
For someone with very high level of financial security, the decision making is much different when this is a financial sacrifice.
I think, given that you can afford Michigan and that it’s his first choice, it’s worth the extra $80,000. And I say that as a Bama parent whose kid happily turned down the more prestigious degree from our state flagship and never looked back.
The STEM Path to MBA program at Bama is pretty cool and gives students some real business exposure (and for the student with enough AP credits, it frequently can be completed in four years and would likely be a piece of cake for the OP’s son with the NMF package, which includes a fifth year). Personally, though, I don’t see a whole lot of extra value in the MBA earned because, with no prior work experience, I’m just doubtful many employers will be all that impressed by it. For someone like the OP’s son, given his aspirations, it makes more sense to me to shoot for an elite MBA program after working for a few years.
If your son visited Bama and got a chance to consider all that’s being offered to him and still feels Michigan is the better value, I’d let him make the choice, knowing that any postgraduate education very well may be on his own dime.
Agree with @LucieTheLakie make sure what you are turning down is indeed not the best choice cost/benefit and all.
My DD is in the STEM MBA program at University of Alabama, and is studying engineering. Even if a student may not decide to complete the MBA, they are obtaining a completed business course (1.5 credits each semester) for every UG year; finishing a MBA with two summers (on-line) and two full time graduate semesters is a pretty nice plan - and finishing the MBA exactly one calendar year after they complete UG degree. There are some additional honors programs that are worth exploring. UA has a fairly large ‘emerging scholars’ program where UG freshmen get into research in their study field.
Vanderbilt seems to still be under consideration so that is another possibility in addition to Bama and Michigan. Have you/ your son eliminated any of them yet or gotten close to doing so?
Not a fan of Vandy Eng at all, especially considering the premium one needs to pay over good state Eng schools. Rice would have been a much better option to weigh if one desired a smaller univ. My choice would be - UMich!
@i012575 , He was admitted to Rice (cost similar to Vanderbilt, about $245K) as well but the Houston heat and fire ants are pretty oppressive and Houston is not Nashville. We are going to look carefully at the STEM MBA and engineering management programs at Bama (thanks @SOSConcern ) and see if there is an equivalent at Michigan. After tracking the continual rise in tuition costs at the private schools and with no clear cap in the future, we will likely see COA pushing $75-$80K in his final years which is beyond our pain threshold.
I applaud you for looking into the details of these programs but I do wonder if that might get in the way in making a final decision (worrying about whether there is an equivalent program at Michigan). Many kids change their minds about what to study once they get to college. Unless he has to commit to a very specific major right off the bat , he has time to figure things out. You seem to be down to two very good choices. For me ( and it is not my money), it would come down to what you agreed to pay going into all this, fit, and mainly where your son sees himself thriving (as long as he is working within the financial parameters you have given him). If he clearly understands the finances, it might be time to sit back and let him figure it out in his own mind what makes the most sense to him.
@sevmom, very good advice. It will probably come down to some intangible ; friends, food, football. Saban vs Harbaugh. Archibald and Woodrow’s vs Jerusalem Garden. Hard to say which is better.
OP, there is a ‘distinction’ with some programs that have been around for a long time - many in our area would say ‘Auburn’ for engineering (or GA Tech, or MS State, or XXX) but that was before UA did the big focus on STEM beginning early 2000’s - and also their national student recruiting. I don’t know how long they have had the full tuition scholarship for OOS high stat students (32ACT/SAT equiv plus HS GPA 3.5+). Way back, UA was always known for business, law school. Auburn for engineering and sciences. UA has successfully developed into more of a national university.
The STEM facilities are marvelous (including faculty research space enviable from other schools - not having to share labs, etc - this is feedback from faculty at very prestigious universities).
Just as some can compare their universities (where some states have several beyond the flagship with diverse programs) I can attest to UT-Austin and TAMU-College Station - I got my MBA back in the early 80’s at TAMU, when UT was in the top 20 for business schools; however TAMU was able to grow their student body and programs - and also their benefactors (a number of oil barons who may have graduated from UT gave their endowments to TAMU because they liked the TAMU package). The business faculty at TAMU was great, and I saw changes with the growth in the few years I lived in College Station.
Dr Witt (who was UA President for the growth phases, and then Provost over UA System) has interesting things to say which give a bit of the history. The current UA President is an engineer who has progressed up through other universities in addition to his faculty time at UA. UA is focusing on graduate programs now that they have fulfilled the UG goals. The four year eng scholarship is definitely a help, along with the four year full tuition scholarship.Until one visits, parents/students are skeptical ‘is it too good to be true?’
My DD is fired up about doing two civil eng concentrations (requires three extra upper division classes).
UA also offers dual eng graduate and MBA degrees.
So here are some links which you may not have seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrV8g7kxJps
UA has updated its Quick Facts http://viewbook.ua.edu/quick-facts/
(2014 enrollment breakdown by state - new undergraduates - which would be freshmen for the most part): http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2014/f18.html
http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2015/e10.html
This URL gives FALL 2015 data for all of the university (not just freshmen).
http://eng.ua.edu/undergraduate/scholarships/
http://site.eng.ua.edu/ This is a one week introduction to engineering/cs for rising HS juniors and seniors. UA doesn’t really advertise it because all three sessions fill up fast. My DD did this before her HS senior year, and was able to determine the eng field she wanted.
Academically, Alabama is not a peer of Michigan. The Michigan degree will open more doors than one from Alabama