All dual enrollment for highschool

Parents Forum
1

<p>My son is finishing what would be his 9th grade year. He is registered as home schooled with our county and takes all of his classes dual enrollment at our community college. (this year was six, will probably average 6 - 8 per year). Does anyone else have a child that does this? Are there any negatives when it comes time for college admissons? I'm not necessarily concerned that he get college credit for all of these classes, we are just trying to provide a challenging curricula for him for high school. If he's not granted credit, will most schools use them for placement? What we don't want is for him to have to retake a lot of courses. </p>

<p>Our state universities are not a problem, they will transfer the credits. I'm thinking more OOS or privates if he chooses that option down the road. He doesn't have any specific schools in mind yet, so I can't really call and ask. I'm thinking more in general. </p>

2

<p>It was many years ago, but we learned that the elite schools counted the local U classes as HS courses. Mine was still at HS, but took 2-5 classes at local U each semester. Those grades were not counted with his GPA, so he could not be Val. At state schools, he had so many extra classes he would be considered a junior, although he would have needed 3 years to fulfill his major. fast forward 8 years, and now kids like yours–tops in their class–are allowed to attend all classes at local U. Had my son stayed for senior year, attending a state U, schools such as HY would have considered him a transfer student. </p>

<p>As I said, as long as your son does not exceed the typical credit requirements, he will be considered to be a freshman. some colleges will give him some credit for classes, but others will not. Most of this information is available of each college websites. </p>

3

<p>If he takes 6 to 8 classes per yr, what exactly will he be taking? Assuming all of them are 3 cr classes (which they shouldn’t be if he is taking any lab sciences) that will be 24-30 classes or 72-90 cr hrs. It only takes 60 cr hrs to earn an AA. I cannot fathom spending 4 yrs at a CC. </p>

<p>I am not an advocate for early graduation, but I would graduate my child early before spending that much time at a CC. </p>

4

<p>Starting at community college as a ninth grader is not unusual for homeschoolers-- I know of numerous homeschoolers who have done just that. Those students have had admissions and academic success.</p>

<p>I suggest getting in touch with homeschooling groups, who will be more familiar with this kind of education than parents of schooled children.</p>

5

<p>Fwiw, I have homeschooled for 20 yrs and have graduated 4 students. While it is not uncommon for homeschoolers to dual enroll as early as 9th grade, it is not common to plan 4 entire yrs of high school strictly on a CC campus. </p>

6

<p>College courses taken before high school graduation generally do not disqualify the student from applying as frosh. Check admissions web pages for colleges to be sure.</p>

<p>Transfer credit and placement policies at private schools vary. Unless there is a premade articulation listing for transfer credit and placement, the previously taken college courses would have to be individually evaluated by the receiving school. Note that credit units, subject credit, and placement into more advanced courses do not necessarily all go together (i.e. it is possible to get credit units, but not subject credit or placement, or placement and/or subject credit but not credit units).</p>

<p>If the student may be pre-med or pre-law, be aware that grades in college courses taken while in high school do count for application to medical or law school.</p>

<p>Taking more than about 60 credits (or 90 if quarter system) at a CC could still be worthwhile if the student wants to explore introductory level courses in a lot of different areas, but less so if the student wants to continue into more advanced course work in his/her chosen areas of interest.</p>

7

<p>Actually the plan as of right now is to do another year at the community college and then apply to the state flagship’s dual enrollment program for the last two years (state flagship requires student to be at least a junior). We have considered graduating him after three years of dual enrollment. One concern though is that he will miss out on taking the PSAT and being eligible for NMF scholarships unless we make a decision really soon and have him take the test this fall. Also, though he is a very strong student, he does not yet know what direction he wants to go as far as majors, careers, etc. I want him to have the time to discover that before he is officially in college.</p>

<p>He is taking/going to take mainly core classes (math, science, English, foreign language and history) at the community college. At the state flagship he will have a wider availability of courses to choose from so he will explore a little. But this is the reason for my concern. He will have taken a lot of undergrad level college courses by the time he graduates highschool. If he can get some transfer credit or place into higher level classes then great. But if not, is he left with having to repeat a bunch of classes? I can’t see him being willing to do that, so I’m wondering if some of his future college choices might be limited.</p>

8

<p>There are two issues: credit for his college classes, and placement for his college classes. The better the college, the less likely he is to get college credit for the classes he has taken. But in my experience, almost any college will give him placement. He won’t have to take Spanish 1, or Calculus, or Intro to Bio, if he can demonstrate to the college that he already knows what he would learn in that course. Repeating classes should not be a concern. </p>

9

<p>The answer to your last question depends on the school. Some will allow the courses for placement, some will allow only certain # of credit hrs! some will give credit after reviewing the course and determining if it matches ther criteria, etc.</p>

<p>Fwiw, the reason I stated that I am opposed to early graduation is bc they have to stand out amongst peers that have had 4 yrs to develop their passions and become involved in research projects, etc. Early graduation does not earn bonus pts for being younger. They have to be as competitive in fewer yrs. </p>

<p>I have no experience taking the approach you are using. I love teaching my kids and I don’t outsource classes until they are beyond my ability to work with them at home. Graduating near jr level status is the most we have ever done. </p>

<p>Here is an article I glanced through the other day that is similar to what you are describing.
<a href=“Florida teen graduates from high school and college in same week”>Florida teen graduates from high school and college in same week;

10

<p>OP, I have a friend who did exactly as you and your S are doing. She is now a 21 yo Ph. D. student at the same college she where she got her bachelor’s. She got her AA degree a week or two before her HS diploma. Sge is considered to be gifted, and she dual-enrolled for the challenge. I don’t know how many colleges she applied to, only the two she had to decide between. Both are highly regarded LAC’s and both admitted her as a junior. Like the Florida girl above, my friend’s D was in the news for her achievement. Good luck to you-my friend’s son is taking fewer CC classes and will likely enter college as a freshman or sophomore, but for her older child, it was the right choice.</p>

11

<p>Thanks for the replies and encouraging stories! My takeaway is that, overall, having to repeat college courses is not going to be an issue at most schools. There’s a good chance he will want to stay at the state flagship where he will be dual enrolled and I know for sure they will accept all of his credits so this probably won’t be an issue anyway. I just want to keep as many doors open for him as possible.</p>

12

<p>I took a lot of dual-enrollment courses while in high school. My advice?</p>

<ol>
<li>Don’t take online classes for any class you want credit for later on when there’s a face-to-face option; they’re far less likely to transfer.</li>
<li>Take a look at transfer credit policies. Emory’s College of Arts and Sciences will accept 24 credit hours; its Oxford College will take 32. Many other top schools, however, will not grant you any credit and they can’t really offer you “placement” instead when certain courses are required for the major. </li>
<li>Public schools are far less likely to grant credit than private schools.</li>
<li>Don’t stay a fifth year to finish an associate’s degree (or additional associate’s degrees).</li>
<li>Make sure you apply as a freshman student. It’s less competitive for top schools than transfer admissions and it’s what those schools want you to do.</li>
<li>Consider taking a few AP tests at another high school so you could still get some credit that way if the schools you’re aiming at won’t take credit.</li>
<li>Any grades they earn now may count toward their GPA for law school, so keep that in mind if they’re considering it.</li>
</ol>

13

<p>Aigiqinf, I agree with many of your points. #1 is one we saw on a lot of school websites. #7 should also include that the GPA may transfer in for you UG degree. Strong students dual enrolling are normally not impacted by that negatively, but kids that are marginal students may find that a DE course from 9th10th grade impacts their GPA negatively. #5 is especially important in terms of merit scholarships and many honors college opportunities.</p>

<p>Where I don’t agree is with #3. It really boils down to a school by school issue. We had many people tell us that certain publics wouldn’t accept ds’s DE credits, but they did. (Though one dean was quite explicit in stating that the courses were accepted bc they were taught on a university campus vs at a CC.) The limitation of AP/transfer cr hrs is the main thing ds ran into. Schools varied from accepting 0 to 16 max to all accepted. </p>

14

<p>I would think that one factor here would be the population served at the CC, and thus the quality of the courses. In my area, the CC is a combination of vocational training and “gen ed” coursework. (In recent years it has been reinvented as a CC, rather than a technical college.) It generally serves either people who want to pursue a vocational course–computer graphics, food prep, building trades, fire fighting, etc–or students who did poorly in HS and hope to transfer to a 4-yr state U. It is not for kids who would be on the AP/IB track in HS, or who have exceeded those offerings. Until recently, for example, they didn’t offer calculus at all. So many of the classes are not equivalent to an honors or AP HS class, much less a university class.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I read about CCs here where kids go to take multivariable calculus or whatever when they have exhausted their HS’s offerings in math.</p>

<p>It seems to me that, unless your CC serves a population that is very strong academically, it would be a shame to skip good university classes because theoretically your kid has “college credit” in a subject. </p>

<p>I realize that that is not the question you asked, though. :)</p>

15

<p>Some boss’s D did that but she also retake some of the classes at University even though she got good grades and credit on them from CC. The only thing she missed was the club and EC activities at regular HS.</p>

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<p>However, if the CC courses do cover the material in the university course, they could allow the student to substitute more advanced courses, which give the student the opportunity to explore a subject more deeply, while usually getting a better classroom experience (smaller classes than the often-large introductory-level classes), compared to repeating the previously-taken material. If the student is not sure how well the CC (or AP) course covered the material relative to the university course, s/he can try the old final exams for the university course to check his/her knowledge.</p>

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<p>Dual enrollment has been a great option for my kid. She’s in a competitive middle college program for 11th and 12th graders. They take honors English and Social Studies together in a high school classroom on campus but then everything else at the CC. Many of the kids in her program choose to attend one of or California public colleges (like Berkeley, UCSD, UCLA) where they get the most bang for their buck in regards to dual enrollment credits. However, this year they have kids going off to selective private schools like NYU, Bowdoin, U Richmond, Pomona and Oberlin. That’s not too shabby.</p>

<p>We don’t yet know which classes D’s private college will accept. They will at max take 7 (one year of credit.) D only cares that they take her Spanish. She’d love for the language requirement to be done. She is not at all interested in graduating early. If she had been, she’d have got to Berkeley where almost all her GE’s would be completed. We don’t foresee any repetition largely because the courses at the private school are packaged so differently. On top of that, she really used CC to explore… not to accelerate in her high interest areas. She’s not going to be an anthropologist. She enjoyed the class and the CC but if the university doesn’t take her intro to physical anthropology class, it’s not like she’d have to repeat it, for example.</p>

<p>I guess what I’m saying is that if it’s important to your son that his classes “count” at the university, he needs to be looking at his public options. He shouldn’t be taking “high school level” classes at the CC. Those won’t transfer and they are often not the same quality as in high school because you are with remedial students. However, if he wants to push himself in college level courses, I recommend exploring and focusing on GE’s as opposed to taking too many classes in his intended major. </p>

18

<p>No, it’s not important for his dual enrollment credits to transfer. I mean it would be nice from a financial standpoint since dual enrollment is free here, but that’s not the reason he is doing it. His reason for dual enrollment was for a more challenging curricula. He wanted the opportunity to take classes above the AP level, and he also likes the faster semester pace over the year long high school pace for classes.</p>

<p>Our community college seems to be one of the better ones from what I have read. Though there’s not an actual articulation agreement, it is the main feeder college to our state flagship. I’ve looked through the course offerings and semeseter schedules and they seem to offer a true generall education curricula - math (including Calc I, II, III, Diff Eq), physics, chem and bio I and II with coordinating labs, various histories and composition and lit courses, three semesters per foreign language. A lot of the professors at the college also teach at the flagship. I’m comfortable with the level of instruction he is receiving there so far. There’s not a lot of variety of course options for exploring I guess, but the plan is to transfer to the flagship’s dual enrollment program after his sophomore year where the course offerings are huge so he should be able to explore then.</p>

<p>My main concern was the repetition of courses. He is not looking to graduate with his bachelor’s early. He wants time for research/internships, etc. The best situation for him would be to have the gen eds accepted in the subjects in which he is not interested, then place into higher level courses in the subjects he wants to pursue. Then he can spend the majority of the four years on advanced and possibly grad level courses. The worst situation would be having to start back at zero. He likes math for example, and plans on finishing through Differential Eq’s before graduating highschool. I think he would turn down any school that would require him to start back at Calc I.</p>

19

<p>OP, I think even if colleges don’t take the classes as transfer credit, they have departmental exams so a student who knows his stuff won’t need to repeat material.</p>

<p>My oldest began part time enrollment at the local community college (CC) at age 12. Unlike your son, he and we weren’t interested in him attending full time. He took 1-2 classes a semester for 5 1/2 years, sometimes not taking any for a semester. He also audited (for free) 5 semesters worth of physics classes at two local universities. He had about 55 CC credits and 19 unofficial univ. audits.</p>

<p>But my son also did online classes, local homeschool honors lit classes, and self-study for his homeschooling experience. We definitely didn’t want it just to be at the local CC, though he had a really good experience. He focused exclusively on math and physics from 7th-10th grade and then when he was out of classes in those subjects, he took two semesters of Arabic and a semester of US History. We weren’t interested in him taking other humanities courses at the CC.</p>

<p>He also took 6 AP exams (5 at the time of application), all in the subjects he studied at the CC: math and physics. He also took the Lit exam in senior year.</p>

<p>Our attitude about transferring units was this: great if he can get it, but he was prepared to repeat stuff.</p>

<p>In the end, surprisingly, he was able to transfer all his math classes and the Calc AP exam to MIT, and was able to start in upper division math classes. As well, he got GE credit for Arabic but didn’t try to get credit for US History (I wish he would have, though). I was very surprised that he got credit and very, very happy. He’s now done with all the required courses for his math degree and can have a little fun with other classes in his last two years (like music).</p>

<p>He did not get credit for any of his physics classes, because MIT only grants credit for Mechanics if you get a 5 on both the M and the E&M AP exams, and my son took those in freshman year without studying and got a 5 and a 4. So yes, he had to repeat M and E&M, but at MIT, they have three levels and he took the hardest (think olympiad physics), and it was plenty hard. He actually ended up TAing in E&M this semester since he did well in the class last year.</p>

<p>Our goal in homeschooling was really to follow his love of learning, so he was very lopsided and it was ok. He wasn’t in a hurry and he didn’t want to graduate early, so he did a ton of non-academic ECs as well as chess, physics and math competitions. </p>

<p>It was a wonderful life with little stress for him. I wouldn’t say he was academically totally challenged. He managed straight As pretty easily. MIT has been a great place to really challenge him.</p>

<p>I would say the downside to what we did and what you’re doing if your son doesn’t graduate early is that some kids, like my son, get tired of taking classes and doing homework. My son <em>loves</em> to work (doing an summer internship doing data analysis) and earn income. He loves MIT but definitely doesn’t love homework. He’s a super extrovert people person and it’s the people that keep him going. :-)</p>

<p>Something to think about.</p>

20

<p>When my D was doing her research, only 2 schools would give no credit and they were rather unusual schools (they didn’t give units for AP’s either.) They still allowed classes to be used for placement.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a school that will stick him back into Calc 1 even if they didn’t want to give him degree credit for his CC classes. If you come across a school that does want to send him back then it’ll be that much easier to pare down his final application list. </p>

<p>For what it’s worth, my D has found most CC classes much more challenging that the AP’s she took when in a traditional school. The AP’s were more “labor intensive” but so much of the grade was based on note-taking, repetitive assignments and “participation.” It took a whole year of daily classes to get through a textbook meant to be completed in 1 semester, 3 hours a week at a university. CC allows her to learn the material in the most productive way “for her” as opposed to spending hours a night learning how her teacher’s thought was best (and then spending an extra hour re-learning in her own style.) As a homeschooler, I’m sure you can appreciate that. D’s been pretty mortified at the gaps she feels in certain college subjects for which she should have had a good foundation based on her AP class grades and test scores. I’m not saying that there aren’t many fantastic AP classes and teachers out there. I had some great ones back in the day (when high schools only offered 3 or 4 max and only the most ambitious students were expected to take them.) I’m just saying that while many people will try to convince you that CC classes are inferior as a rule, that’s not the experience we’ve had. </p>