<p>I agree with everything that Bassdad wrote. I would add that I’m certain the standards vary considerably between states; in some states it would require more than just a decent voice to make all-state chorus.</p>
<p>As a parent of a Texas All State choir member, I have to say that it can be very difficult and competitive to make All State choir, depending on which region you are in. In Texas, they pick 4 chairs for each voice part from, I believe, 6 regions for the top mixed choir. That means if you are from Houston, Dallas or Austin, the competition is very fierce. If you are from Amarillo, not so much. So…the prestige of making the choir really depends on which region you are from. My son goes to a performing arts HS which had 9 kids make the choir last year. The ones who graduated all got music scholarships from very strong music programs. Just an example from Texas.</p>
<p>I think Texas is competitive in pretty much everything, due to its size.</p>
<p>We found a similar situation with oboe in our state. In our region, one of the top academic counties in the country, the competition is fierce to make it to All-State, because the judges can only pick three oboes from our region. Outside our region, it is far less competitive to go to All-STate. My daughter was really surprised to hear the level of the oboes auditioning from outside our region, and said there was no way most of them would have made it that far if they lived where we do. Based on that experience, she concluded that it was not worth spending more time on auditioning, waiting and performing in the All-State process.</p>
<p>Thanks to BassDad for the detailed explanation. I also agree that a lot of times success in high school is all about strategizing.</p>
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<p>I would think that your son would have had the same opportunity at his local school. My son made Allstate Band and he doesn’t go to a special school. He just went and auditioned for Region Band, made that and got a call back for Allstate, drove to our state capital for that audition and made that.</p>
<p>I think that you should consider yourself lucky that you have the opportunity to send your student to a special school, even if you have to pay more for it. Many of us don’t have the same opportunity as you.</p>
<p>imagep,I think what that poster meant in his comment, posted almost 3 years ago, is that he bemoans the lack of equality in public education in our country. In my own city, students have very unequal access to resources with typically the poorest students receiving a shockingly inadequate, dangerous education (if you can call it that) at comprehensive high schools. Students with access to better resources are able to attend city magnet schools where at least their physical safety is insured (to a point- when my kids attended these schools, they passed through metal detectors every day). But the quality of resources on every level is drastically inferior to what is available to suburban students living only a few miles away. I have spent time in inner city schools, both the magnet schools and the comprehensive schools, and it is almost sickening to compare the inferior education offered to these children. By contrast, our suburban schools are beautifully appointed, with every facility imaginable. They are safe; their teachers are relatively well-paid and less stressed. They have decent music programs, and the kids in these program all have access to private lessons and decent instruments provided by their well-to-do (relatively at least) families. It is a very unequal world.</p>
<p>Origional poster, I don’t know anything about your state, or voice, but at my son’s college, every student accepted for his instrument made Allstate band. That doesn’t mean that you neccesarally have to make Allstate, or even try out for it, but I would think that most college level music students are Allstate quality. </p>
<p>I have no idea if they gave any weight to the fact that he had made Allstate, they probably give more weight to the audition than anything else. </p>
<p>There are possibly other factors that matter just as much as Allstate. Going to a high school that is known for music is probably a plus also. My son went to just a regular public school, no performing arts school or anything fancy, but his school is considered a top school in our state for band and his band director knows EVERYONE at his college, so we got him to send letters of recommendation to every college he applied. </p>
<p>My son also attended the “honors band” program that happened to be at the college he ultimately selected, so his name was already known at the college (didn’t hurt that he made first chair in that program). And at that program he had a master class with one of the people who was observing his audition. Sometimes name/face recognition and familiariety is important. </p>
<p>The last thing that may have helped was the fact that my son was knowledgeable about music and his instrument. Before he auditioned, the studio professor met with all of the auditionees as a group. He explained that they would be having a guest professor three weeks each semester for the next three year, the guest professor happens to be one of the most famous musicians for his instrument. My son was the only one who spoke up and let the auditioner know that he knew who the guest professor was and asked questions about him - all the other auditionees just had blank expressions like they have never heard of him. </p>
<p>It also probably depends on the college a lot. His college is a major state university, not famous at all for music, and a fairly small “school of music” for a college of nearly 30,000 students. Of the 6 students that auditioned at the same time my son did (I have no clue how many auditioned at other audition times), he was the only one admitted. they only addmitted 4 total students for his instruments. I am sure that a top conservatory or more famous music school would be even more selective, and there are others that will take just about anyone with a pulse. So it just depends.</p>
<p>My take is that the value of all state and the like is probably more indirect then a direct influence of getting into a music performance program. I do think it is true that for high level music programs,people admitted are going to be at the very least all state, and in many cases higher level then all state would be. All State level also varies where you are, what year it is and so forth as well. One of the factors is what kind of competition does all state have; in places with top level youth programs all state may not get the very top level kids, whereas in places that don’t have those kind of programs, all state might have very high levels students. </p>
<p>In terms of getting into a school, All State probably has some influence in admissions where you are talking about either going into an academic program, or a music program in an LAC in terms of admission to the overall university, as an EC…but in terms of getting into a music performance program, it is likely to matter very little or in most cases, not at all, since everything pretty much boils down to an audition.</p>
<p>Because of All State, my S has been “recruited” by many of the Texas and Oklahoma music programs, in terms of invitations and scholarships to summer camp. He’s gotten some personal letters from heads of music schools/dept. inviting him to come audition or do sample lessons. But I don’t think that any of this will have much bearing when it comes to actual admission. I agree that it will come down to how well he auditions on that day. Oh the pressure!</p>
<p>I live in New Jersey, one of the most competitive states for the music program and I personally know the kids who made it to orchestra/band and the ones who made it to chorus and the difference it training, talent, etc., is very obvious. However I also see that when All State is just being used as an EC to HYPS or any other top 25 colleges, Orchestra/Band kids seem to get in as opposed to the All State chorus kids. Of course I do understand that if one wants to be a music major and go to a conservatory or a prestigious music program then this does not matter at all. My question was only for students who want to show all roundness to go for an academic program and statistically Orchestra/Band is preferred over Chorus. Why is that so?</p>
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So many really good singers, preparing for conservatory level study, do not do chorus. It requires a different kind of singing and can be confusing for young singers. Their teachers do not like them to do chorus and get that kind of coaching. It does not seem to be the same for instruments. Being in an ensemble does not have a detrimental affect on solo technique. </p>
<p>One year in our state, they selected the second tier students in DD’s chorus, the ones that knew how to blend really well. None of the top singers made it. DD’s chorus director was one of the few that encouraged the solo singers participation in the chorus and knew how to get the right sounds out of them with minimal impact on their solo techniques. That is rare. </p>
<p>Since the actual talent level in the chorus may be much different than the level for instruments, state chorus is just not necessarily a good indicator of the voice solo talent in the states that select based on blend.</p>
<p>Piggybacking onto what Singersmom07 said, from the orchestra/band side of things, the conservatory-bound instrumentalists often do not bother with the All-State and regional ensembles. If they do ensembles, they go out for elite youth orchestras and chamber programs, particularly if they live in cities with precollege programs. The regional ensembles (probably with the exception of Southern and Southwester band culture) are not at the same level. The players we see as section chairs at regional orchestras are usually not the top players (although they are quite good) and generally tend to be heading to non-conservatory programs. I would not go so far as to say they are doing these programs merely as resume-builders. These ensembles have much value beyond that. But the pure-conservatory kids are often unable to spare the time away, and are not encouraged by their teachers to do All-State. They may even be penalized by their Youth Orchestras or precollege programs for missing a weekend.</p>
<p>I second what glassharmonica said. My daughter participated in the regional and state band programs last year, the only 9th grader on her instrument. Her youth orchestra was not at all happy with her missing two rehearsals on the weekends. She won’t be doing All-State again, and next year when she’ll be principal in the youth orchestra, she wouldn’t be allowed to do All State anyway.</p>
<p>We were fortunate to have a really good youth orchestra that was willing to work around All State dates. Many of the top players in the All State group were also in that youth orchestra. That let my daughter participate in both (actually all three since she did All State in Band, which takes one double bass player, and Orchestra). Her private teacher at the time (now assistant principal in the Philadelphia Orchestra) encouraged her to play in all of those ensembles, having himself been in an All State group when he was in high school. The teacher who conducted her high school’s orchestra was certainly in favor of having her participate in All State. Her schedule was certainly very demanding, but not impossible.</p>
<p>My D, now a freshman VP major, was in All State chorus junior year but didn’t even audition for All State senior year because the audition date conflicted with one of her college auditions. Her take on All States was that it was a worthwhile experience but not worth rearranging her college audition schedule for.</p>
<p>All State Chorus accepts so many people. It’s definitely not as valued as All State Band/Orchestra.</p>
<p>All good opinions, a good/great college audition is all that matters for music school acceptance. But I think any and all of the honors festivals are great for meeting other young people who share your passion from different areas of your state, etc. Plus you will see many of the musicians again as you go forward in life. No one from son’s high school class is attending his music school however he already knew 15-20 students from festivals and summer camps who are attending his school. It is amazing how you run into the same people at auditions, etc. Music is a small world and it is great to start making friends and connections in high school.</p>
<p>So, I’m looking to audition for Regional band this year. While it doesn’t really affect your chances of getting into a music school, would most people here agree it’s a good thing to do for someone who wants to pursue music in college (non-conservatory)? Good experience for auditioning, meeting other people, etc.? Just curious. Thanks for anyone who can clarify. =)</p>
<p>It’s definitely a good idea! Any chance you have of playing before an informed audience, especially one with a checklist that could give you a good idea of how others perceive your strengths and weaknesses, is something you should grab. The weekend experiences are usually enjoyable, you get to meet other people who share your passion for music, it looks good on your resume even if you don’t go into music, and as others have said, it’s amazing how small a world the music world is.</p>
<p>D2 (not a music major) absolutely hated performing and only did regionals/allstate once - and discovered that being “judged” wasn’t as scary as she thought - it gave her new confidence and was part of what led her to pursue music as an interest in college. D3 (music major) did regionals/all state every year except senior year, when there were too many conflicts with her audition schedule. Both enjoyed the experience, especially the allstate stay-at-hotel-meet-new-people one.</p>
<p>The regional and All-State experiences can be a lot of fun and great learning experiences, if the student can afford the time. While the level of playing may not be up to pre-conservatory levels, there is the chance to play with new people and learn from new teachers. In D’s case, the conductors came from well-respected schools and were really good. The decision to attend or not to attend should be based on predicted educational value and not on how good it will look on the resume, especially for prospective music majors.</p>
<p>Recently I attended the concert of a local well-known conservatory. Every one of the players was a star. It interested me, however, that they did not play as well together as I would have expected. I figure it is one thing to be a great player, and another thing to be a great TEAM player. That is what my D got out of her experience.</p>