All UVa frats on suspension

<p>Why do people join any club? Why do they want to take a big group and divide into smaller groups? Why have country clubs when everyone could play golf and tennis at the public courses and courts, equal access for everyone? Why have the Elks club and Rotary or the Shriners when everyone could just sign up to organize a parade or circus, and donate money directly? There would be no social events, but I’m sure the same people would ALWAYS sign up for the clean up crew and volunteer to sell tickets because they are just in it for the philanthropy, aren’t they? No need for Girl Scouts or Boy scouts either because then we wouldn’t have to worry about people being excluded, about gay leaders or kids getting lost on hikes (dangerous to go hiking, canoeing, rafting) and the kids could just go hiking with their parents or school groups (whole school included in every activity because we wouldn’t want to make a smaller group out of a bigger one).</p>

<p>Fraternities and sororities are social clubs. Maybe the colleges should not support them on campus with housing, but then they’d form off campus (as they have at some schools that don’t want them like Harvard) because people want to join, want a social club, want a smaller group of friends, and then the school would lose all control over them. If they didn’t exist, other groups would form and there would be alcohol. In my dorm, we’d host parties that were much bigger than the frats ever had (Greek life pretty small at that school).</p>

<p>Actually @Blossom it turns out that police are NOT investigating rapes at all in this country. I can’t find the link from the other thread right now, but I will tomorrow. Too tired to read through it.</p>

<p>You will be really unhappy when you see it. However, maybe it can be the start of figuring out what the hell is wrong with the system and how it can be fixed.</p>

<p>One can hope.</p>

<p>I belonged to a co-ed fraternity in college (NB: its UVA chapter remains one of the final holdouts against admitting sisters). I met my husband there. I have no personal animus against Greek-letter organizations, but it is absurd to suggest that the gang-rape described in the Rolling Stone article would have occurred if the young men involved did not feel safe executing it. Had they suspected that the chapter officers would initiate proceedings against them, and report them to University or municipal authorities, they would not have done it. The chief perpetrator approached the victim on campus. She knew the identities of at least two perpetrators. The rapists presumed - with considerable justification - that they were acting with impunity. Their fraternity chapter has to have enabled them in that regard, and must be penalized accordingly.</p>

<p>Is [End</a> The Backlog](<a href=“http://www.endthebacklog.org/]End”>http://www.endthebacklog.org/) what you’re looking for, poetgrl? That site details the enormous backlog of rape kits that were never even processed or looked at by police. Might the DNA evidence from some accuser implicate a person already known to the police? We’ll never know if the police don’t test the rape kit.</p>

<p>Or could it be [this</a> transcript of a talk by Rebecca Campbell](<a href=“http://nij.gov/multimedia/presenter/presenter-campbell/Pages/presenter-campbell-transcript.aspx]this”>The Neurobiology of Sexual Assault: Implications for Law Enforcement, Prosecution, and Victim Advocacy | National Institute of Justice), (link originally posted by dstark) in which Campbell tells about her investigations of rape reports as they percolate through the system, explaining that 86% don’t make it to the prosecutor because, police say, they don’t believe the accusers?</p>

<p>yes. haha. thanks.</p>

<p>That backlog and the attitudes described as shared by many in law enforcement is so very depressing for me. </p>

<p>I know. But, just knowing this stuff is a turning point. We need to know it and DO something about it. </p>

<p>Absolutely! I’m just shocked to find out thats all. I am typing this from overseas with a freshman daughter in college in the US right now so I am sure you can appreciate my anxiety. Don’t think I will sleep a good sleep until she graduates.</p>

<p>I understand your anxiety. I hope you talked to her about this stuff.</p>

<p>The good news is that the red zone is almost over for her. Take care and don’t worry too hard. </p>

<p>Thanks for your calming words. Indeed we spoke with her at length about these issues but so had Jackie’s parents… </p>

<p>Going back to UVA… Has anyone seen this blog post by a UVA faculty member? </p>

<p><a href=“UVA gang rape allegations in Rolling Stone: Not surprising to one associate professor.”>http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/11/25/uva_gang_rape_allegations_in_rolling_stone_not_surprising_to_one_associate.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“A very expensive mural called “The Student’s Progress” covers the entire foyer and stairwell of Old Cabell Hall, which is also the University’s premier auditorium and the favored space for visiting dignitaries. The mural depicts, among other scenes of daily life at the University of Virginia, a male faculty member standing on a porch and tossing a mostly naked student her bra as his beleaguered wife comes up the stairs.”</p>

<p>Seems like a lot more needs to change at this school… Murals depicting faculty having sexual affairs with students, fighting song with lyrics about freshman abuse… Actual rape… Administrators specializing in turning their heads the other way… </p>

<p>A lot to comprehend. </p>

<p>That mural says it all. I think people need to re-read 'I am Charlotte Simmons". A no b.s. examination of how this crap happens on campuses.</p>

<p>One “solution” that is not going to work is encouraging kids to come forward and speak up. You don’t understand the stigma of being a snitch on campus is if you think that’s going to work. </p>

<p>I spent a long time looking at that mural recently. Never noticed that part. </p>

<p>My DD was a Jefferson finalist. When she arrived for the three or four day interview she never felt comfortable. It was just something in the air. I’m glad she made the decision to go to school elsewhere.</p>

<p>I’m curious why there has been not one single reference to the honor code. UVa is supposed to have an honor code. Does it only apply to school work? In my mind the honor code should require you to come forward if you know anything about these sexual assults.</p>

<p>I do not understand why no one in the the fraternity has come forward. </p>

<p>To me, this is a tone at the top issue; if top administrators don’t care about sexual assault until they are backed into a corner by the press, I have a hard time believing that the honor code promulgated by those same administrators will be thought of as applying to this. </p>

<p>(Besides, do honor codes really work? Can an honor code alone make a student ethical at all, much less <em>more ethical</em> than college professors and administrators? An honor code to me can only enshrine shared values; by itself it cannot compel action or alter personalities.)</p>

<p>I’ve been reluctant to post on this thread because I find the situation at UVA to be vile and horrendous. Woogzmama said it all for me when she observed that the frat felons acted without any worry of being prosecuted (certainly their morals or lack thereof didn’t hold them back) because they felt themselves to be untouchable.</p>

<p>I simply do not understand that mentality; the attitude that you can severely harm someone and not care a whit about the consequences. I knew a fraternity nitwit or two in my days on campus, but no one like that. It seems today that either it’s a privileged and spoiled marauder like George Hughley at UVirginia or a frenzied wolfpack like the damn fools in the Florida A&M marching band. I hate to think there are more criminals like these predators out there on various campuses.</p>

<p>I am also concerned about the comfort level that these boys seemed to have with their actions. They do not seem concerned about the fraternity members or party goers or the administration doing anything about it. That combined with many other women coming forward speaks volumes to me.</p>

<p>It is also clear that the administration and the board knew that this was happening repeatedly and did nothing. One Board member had the courage to say so at the Board Meeting. How can the President remain in place? Why do they only care when it is reported in the national news? And how many other Universities are continuing to do exactly the same thing right now? Is this really unique to UVA? </p>

<p>As parents, what are the right questions to be asking of our kids colleges and of our Alma Maters to find out more and encourage the to seriously consider what improvements are needed to keep students safe?</p>

<p>Any knowledgable suggestions? </p>

<p>What can we as parents do besides caution our own children? Pepper spay and a rape whistle? Handgun permit? What else can we do? </p>

<p>I also remember that some of the Board members tried to oust UVA’s president because she wasn’t pro-traditions enough, so… there’s plenty of blame to go around.</p>

<p>Dean Eramo should be fired. When told of the rape, she needed to pick up the phone and call the police, and given the young woman referrals to counseling and support, as well as request to call the parents. But she had no more right to make a decision or let the student decide not to report the crime. What if she had reported a murder? Those finger would have been hitting the numbers very fast. Or if Jackie had reported mass cheating on an exam for that matter. </p>

<p>I think the Duke case is relevant because it is an example many know how someone who claims she’s raped may lie. It can happen. If you think prosecuters push for certain answers from possible victims, what do you think MSM do? Reporters? I don’t believe every word of that RS article, everything Jackie says. Just don’t know. Yes, people have made up outrageous, horrendous tales. </p>

<p>After reading the many, many articles and comment threads about this subject, I feel that I have failed as a parent in one way. I noticed how many young women did not report because they were afraid of their parents finding out. I have always doled out plenty of advice to my daughter about being careful in all the usual ways. I don’t think I’ve been nearly as vocal about stressing that NO MATTER WHAT, it is not her fault and to never be afraid to tell me or to report it. I am going to change that, starting today. </p>

<p>Socalmom, many wonderful young people do not want their parents told about anything that could cause those parents pain. I never would have brought my parents into such things. Frankly, I was more capable of dealing with things like that than my parents. Some parents would be totally at loss as to what to do. I know my parents had anxieties about my going off to a top school. Too rich for their blood. They got used to it, as all of their kids did the same, but at first, there was that issue. I always was protective of my parents. Also, unfortunately, there are parents who do make things like this worse. </p>