Alternatives for Fine art major after BFA

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>Daughter is interested in becoming a freelance artist after she get her BFA. Based on my understanding she have the following two options?</p>

<ol>
<li>Continue to get MFA in a top art school but who know if she could get in</li>
<li>Find some kind of practical job to make a living and in the same time to Work her own way by sell, competition ...</li>
</ol>

<p>Am I right of the above two options?</p>

<p>What do you think about the following as a third option(PH.D. of Visual and Cultural Studies) ?
<a href="http://www.rochester.edu/college/AAH/VCS/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rochester.edu/college/AAH/VCS/index.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The Program accepts five to seven graduate students each year, and all successful applicants receive full tuition remission, and a stipend. BFA can enter this program directly.</p>

<p>Is that a deal?
Anyone know other school have similar program?</p>

2

<p>Daughter told me many BFA student work on low pay job and in the same time work on their art. In stead of work on low pay job maybe work on PH.D. is a better option?
You can live on the stipend and in the same time making art.
I don’t think the PH.D. program itself can be that busy to make the student have no time to make art. I could be wrong again.</p>

3

<p>Ok it is kind of tedious to find it but in the bulltein page 106 and 107</p>

<p>Visual and Cultural Studies
Program
Professors Berlo, Crimp, DiPiero, Duro, Foster, Michael, Willis
Associate Professors Haidu, Saab
Affiliated Faculty: Professors Bernardi, Gustafson, Schaefer;
Associate Professors Scheie, Seiberling, Tucker, Wolcott; Assistant
Professors Creech, Doran, Hwang, Kim, Middleton,
Niu, Reichman
An interdisciplinary program in Visual and Cultural Studies at
the University of Rochester, this is one of the few programs in
the country that offers graduate degrees with an emphasis on art,
media, and film theory, criticism, and cultural studies.
The program offers students the chance to earn a doctoral
degree by doing intensive work in several of Rochester’s humanities
departments. Primary faculty for the Visual and Cultural
Studies Program teach in the Departments of Art and Art
History, Anthropology, English, Modern Languages and Cultures,
and the Eastman School of Music. Students may also take
courses from other departments, for example in history, or education,
as part of their studies.
The program stresses close interpretation of art, film,
and media within social and historical frameworks. Students
are able to relate recent developments in literary and cultural
theory to visual works and to investigate the interrelationships
between critical texts and visual culture. The graduate program
encourages students not only to gain detailed knowledge about
their chosen field, but also to develop critical, analytical skills.
Students explore culture in its social and historical context, and
employ a variety of critical methods and perspectives.
Rochester’s Program in Visual and Cultural Studies is one
of the few in the country that offers a doctorate in interdisciplinary
critical theory and visual studies. It is also unique in its strong
emphasis on the analysis of visual culture.
There are currently 30 graduate students in residence in the
program.
Visual and Cultural Studies Colloquium
AH 583. Colloquium in Visual and Cultural Studies
Core and Elective Courses*
AH 411. The Films of Jean-Luc Godard
AH 412. Modern Architecture
AH 414. Beyond the Boundaries
AH 415. Contemporary Art: Theory and Practice

  • Offerings vary from year to year. Arrangements may be made for directed
    courses in studio.</p>

<p>AH 431. Terror, Excess, and Revolution: Romanticism in European
Art
AH 450. Baroque Art and Culture
AH 455. American Art
AH 456. Vernacular Architecture in the USA
AH 459. Women, Cloth, and Culture
AH 463. Twentieth-Century Art and Culture
AH 462. Impressionism and Post-Impressionism
AH 466. African-American Visual Culture
AH 474. Cultural History of American Architecture
AH 477. The Museum and “the Other”
AH 482. Renaissance Art: Space, Narrative, Form
AH 487. Culture on Display
AH 492. The Modern City
AH 500. Reconsidering Roland Barthes
AH 506. The Visual Sublime in Art and Culture
AH 507. Rhetoric of the Frame
AH 508. Art and Imitation: Visual Representation in the Western
Tradition
AH 512. Postwar Art and Theory: The Sixties
AH 515. Feminism and Visual Culture
AH 520. The Politics of Space
AH 525. Contemporary Art and Culture
AH 526. New Histories of Postwar Art II
AH 584. The Visual Culture of Heritage and Identity
AH 568. Art of the Colonial Encounter
ANT 426. Culture and Consumption
ANT 466. Global Culture
ANT 467. Fashion, Beauty, Power
ANT 551. Meaning and Emotion in Culture
CLT 405C. French Avant-Garde(s)
CLT 411B. French Film: The New Wave
CLT 412J. Avant-Garde Film
CLT 412G. Nazi Culture
CLT 419. Contemporary Popular Film: Race and Gender
CLT 434. Queer Theory
CLT 447. The Holocaust: Aesthetics of Representation and
Negotiation
CLT 454. Psychoanalysis and Cultural Studies
CLT 457. Kristeva
CLT 480. Feminist Film Theory
CLT 481. Popular Film: Sex and Violence
CLT 481A. Contemporary French Thought
CLT 481B. Freud, Lacan, and Contemporary Thought
CLT 482. Marx and Marxism
CLT 482A. Nietzsche and the Nietzscheans
ENG 437. Marxism and Feminism
ENG 457. Media Studies
ENG 458. Feminism, Criticism, and Culture
ENG 488. Marxist Cultural Theory
ENG 551. Critical Theory—Foucault
ENG 542. The African-American Postmodern
ENG 552. Post-Colonial Theory
ENG 553. Feminist Theory
HIS 482. Topics in Twentieth-Century American Cultural History
SA 491. Independent Studio</p>

4

<p>U Rochester is some fine school for sure. but question is, is your kid want to do any of these^ after already demanding brain heavy BFA ?
there is no detailed link for every courses but what bothers me is
“Offerings vary from year to year. Arrangements may be made for directed courses in studio.”
and there is only one studio course in the entire thing.
it seems studio is in their backseat.
if academics are this demanding, I don’t know if she’d have time and energy to do her own art.
I looked at SAIC’s similar program and it was lax and bleezy compere to these offerings. (of course you’d have to pay bundles to SAIC, instead of them paying you to study)
I so wanted to love Godard’s films because you should be able to appreciate that sort of art if you want to be that sort of scholar, but sadly I don’t get it.
It kind of worries me that certain course is listed in very beginning to summarize entire “media” “film” category… too clich</p>

5

<p>If it is any consolation, most of the 2nd and 3rd year students seem to be focused on become free lance artists and say they are dedicated to creating art even if it means working awful day job. I understand that when they are seniors they suddenly think that being a waitress, etc. is not for them and either 1) look very hard to work in an art related job even if not ideal/independent 2) desperately look for MFA that pays a stipend or 3) consider getting a k-12 teaching certificate. S has said that he will consider working as a plumber or get master welder to support his art aspirations. He has no idea how tired he will be…but let them dream for now…I was going to be a union organizer/agricultural economist/revolutionary when I was an undergrad,I became more practical after I worked at Wendy’s for months buried under lots of undergraduate debt and threatened with violence if I kept spouting my marxist ideas to the full-time fast food workers…grad school was my escape from harsh reality. I assume S will follow an equally uncharted route…</p>

6

<p>bears:
I am not going to ask Daughter now. I want to think ahead a little in case she turn to me for options in the future.
I didn’t look into that much, maybe this program is too heavier.</p>

<p>famm:
good point! It is so possible she may only dreaming on this kind of low pay job and working on her art … and will come to reality later.
you said:
MFA that pays a stipend ? is that possible, I didn’t see any one offer it.</p>

<p>Anyone know similar program other than SAIC?
What is your opinion about related PH.D. other than MFA?</p>

7

<p>Ahh…that is cool!
Manga girl and I will be at the U of Rochester this weekend for our college visit trip. She is very excited about going. I need to remind her to check into Nazareth College while we are there; they have an art therapy program with undergrad psych/art possible double major…</p>

<p>Maybe Little Blue would be interested in Art Therapy?</p>

8

<p>thanks!
I heard this kind of program. I have a coworker and his girl friend is major in Art Therapy.</p>

9

<p>What do you mean by “freelance artist”? If your daughter has technical skills in graphic or web design, etc. she could look for freelance work in these areas. If, however, you simply mean she wants to be a practicing artist but needs a way to support herself, that’s a tough question. Most students take a significant amount of time off between receiving their bachelor’s and master’s degrees. Programs like to see that you have taken time to develop your style, establish yourself independent of a program, and spend time outside of school. If your daughter can work a part-time job it’s probably ideal, as it doesn’t demand too much time. Full-time jobs in the arts are good for keeping in touch with the industry, but can be very demanding and leave one with little energy for their own work. It’s also very difficult to find professional jobs in the current economy.</p>

<p>No visual arts MFA program that I know of pays their students to attend. And if you choose certain schools like Columbia or RISD you will be paying through the nose to attend. It’s important I think to spend a few years at least trying to decide if this is the right option or not. Most grad students I know now are between 25 and 30, most closer to age 30. Many are even older than that.</p>

<p>“I don’t think the PH.D. program itself can be that busy to make the student have no time to make art.” –> I would strongly caution against this type of thinking. PhD programs are incredibly demanding, and often take up to 7-9 years to finish. That is a huge time commitment to make to something if you’re just in it for safety and the stipend. There is a lot of work to do in these programs–teaching, intensive paper writing, classes, etc. And the stipend students receive, while supposedly covering their expenses for the duration, is not very large, and one must live very meagerly to afford anything, let alone art supplies and space to work. Finally, PhD programs are extremely competitive, and notice when students are in it for other reasons, so likely your daughter may not even be accepted. She has to be drawn to this program for what it is and what it will yield, not the perpetual student status.</p>

10

<p>thanks for your reply!</p>

<p>I know it is hard to get in, maybe as hard as top MFA program. i got the idea from</p>

<p>[Walid</a> Raad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walid_Raad]Walid”>Walid Raad - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Walid Raad didn’t go to MFA and got this kind of Ph.D. It seems like he is doing good.</p>

<p>Not sure how demanding this kind of program can be ? Not sure If my daughter can get in or even want to try. </p>

<p>I am thinking the Ph.D. may help on inspiration and build up the kids as a strong human being? </p>

<p>When I talk about “freelance artist”, I talk up she want to live on making art not commercial art like graphic design …</p>

<p>Like famm said: she may grow out of this idea, and now she is only second year in college.</p>

11

<p>honied, honey, please check your facts and use google…I am so glad I did…I just learned a lot. I knew there were some programs to support grad students…I didn’t realize that everyone seems to want to pay a tiny number of grad students a pittance for two years…</p>

<p>All large universities offer assitantships and sometimes grants to MFA students. The money is getting scarcer and the competition fiercer but it is assumed that you will earn a miserable salary while pursuing your mfa EVEN AT RISD…</p>

<p>[FAQs</a> | Graduate | Painting | Academic Departments | RISD](<a href=“http://www.risd.edu/templates/accordian.aspx?id=4294971729]FAQs”>http://www.risd.edu/templates/accordian.aspx?id=4294971729)</p>

<p>and at MICA
[Graduate</a> On-Campus Employment](<a href=“http://www.mica.edu/Academic_Services_and_Libraries/Office_of_Graduate_Studies/Resources_for_Graduate_Students/Graduate_On-Campus_Employment.html]Graduate”>http://www.mica.edu/Academic_Services_and_Libraries/Office_of_Graduate_Studies/Resources_for_Graduate_Students/Graduate_On-Campus_Employment.html)</p>

<p>PLEASE SEE LAST JOB at MICA (above) …omg…a safety monitor! My son’s current job could segue into an MFA?! :slight_smile: He just has to learn about dealing with sexual harrassment (to him? by him? next to him?) and he can pay for his MFA at MICA…</p>

<p>large state universities–teaching assistantships are a given–but sometimes on 2-5 assistantships or support for 250 applicants… the problem is the very small number of positions for all the artists that want to earn an MFA.</p>

<p><a href=“http://art.missouri.edu/pdf/MFABrochure.pdf[/url]”>http://art.missouri.edu/pdf/MFABrochure.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>and my very favorite (still where I think son may end up…)</p>

<p>[Art</a> & Technology Graduate Program in the Department of Art at the Ohio State University](<a href=“Art and Technology | An area of study in the Department of Art”>Art and Technology | An area of study in the Department of Art)</p>

<p>“The majority of accepted MFA candidates are offered a teaching assistantship position. This includes free tuition and a monthly stipend in exchange for 20 hours of work per week. Additional financial assistance is available through grants. Graduates are provided with either a shared, or individual studio during both years of their studies”. OSU’s info is pretty much standard on the websites I looked at. </p>

<p>So…keep this info around for when, after creating art and living in poverty for a few years, our launchees post college want to extend their years of poverty and creating art and go into an MFA program …I think I may start building a website with MFA links, plus grants, etc. There probably is one out there already or the art colleges have them but really you need it a few years after graduation not at graduation</p>

12

<p>Hi Loveblue,</p>

<p>That Rochester program is very good and many say that is the best in the U.S. in that category. Here are some other good programs that you and your daughter might look at:</p>

<p>UC San Diego’s PhD program in Art History, Theory and Criticism
University of Buffalo PhD Program in Media Study
Both of which are geared for practicing artists.</p>

<p>Also maybe look at UC Irvine’s PhD in Visual Studies.</p>

<p>There are many PhD art history/visual studies programs that provide partial and full funding. Because of the artist nature of these programs your daughter would have time for her art.</p>

<p>Best,
Wheaty</p>

13

<p>fineartsmajormom: All MFA programs offer various assistantships, student jobs, and even scholarships, but most of these cover only a small fraction of what is often $40,000-$50,000 each year in tuition and housing. Most MFA students I knew at Columbia were TAs, darkroom coordinators, or wood/metal shop monitors, but it paid very little, especially compared to the massive loans they had to take out. Just keep that in mind when you look at this information, because a lot of it can be misleading. Most MFA students at top schools like RISD, MICA, Yale, and Columbia will have to take out loans and seek scholarships.</p>

<p>Also, again I want to reiterate the rigor of a PhD program. They are much harder than MFAs (to get into and to attend) and demand a large portion of a students time and, inevitably, their life. Some of these do, yes, appear to be geared toward practicing artists, but most as I can see on their websites require a written dissertation as well, and that’s a major undertaking. It’s not something to hop into because you want “security,” because it doesn’t really offer that.</p>

14

<p>Thanks Wheaty and honied_dreams for you input!
It seems true that the Ph.D. is more demanding/harder than MFA, but it can give the artist some new perspectives or fresh inspirations from the study? </p>

<p>Written dissertation maybe is a way to “help/push” the young adult go a extra mile to really achieve something? </p>

<p>I did talked to a guy who have a art history master degree but didn’t found a job and now never try to find a job, he is working part time for a Church. He said Art history is not a way to go, very hard to find a job. But who know why he can not found a job? maybe he didn’t try hard to looking for?
It looks like “Visual and Cultural Studies” and “Art History” are similar? Maybe hard to find a job also?</p>

<p>Anyone? please provide your input?</p>

<p>honied_dreams:
frmm is right. there is some MFA offer big money. Stanford accept 5 each year with:</p>

<p>Q: How much does it cost to attend the MFA Program?
A: If you are accepted, you are fully funded through a combination of fellowships and work-study.</p>

<p>Here is the link:
<a href=“http://art.stanford.edu/graduate/mfa-art-practice/graduate-art-practice-faq/[/url]”>http://art.stanford.edu/graduate/mfa-art-practice/graduate-art-practice-faq/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Not sure any other programs</p>

15

<p>I drove around Nazareth when we were in Rochester. Lovely little school, but I don’t know much about the programs.</p>

16

<p>Hi love, I’ve been following your posts about post-grad degrees and possible careers. My first thought was that someone interested in art history could pursue a degree in museum studies, undergrad or post-grad (the Corcoran would be a fine choice for this). Here’s another idea that melds together many interests (see below). My D had this teacher last year. The instructor is brilliant and goes above and beyond! Can you imagine what a great job this would be? Art, travel, filmmaking, research, publishing, teaching, etc. Anyway, this bio tells how she got where she is today: </p>

<pre><code><<< Carolyn M Bloomer, Ph.D. is a cultural anthropologist specializing in contemporary Chinese culture. She has been engaged in field-research in mainland China since 1988, focusing on visual arts, film, education, and agriculture.
</code></pre>

<p>Having led and accompanied a number of cultural exchange groups to China, she has acquired a secondary specialty in how Americans interface with China. </p>

<p>Since 1992, her “regular job” has been Coordinator of the Cultural Beliefs Curriculum in the Liberal Arts Program at Ringling School of Art and Design in Sarasota FL.</p>

<p>Carolyn is concerned with issues involving intercultural sensitivity and social responsibility in the convergence of visual perception, graphic design, and cross-cultural communication. She has written a number of articles for publications such as “Critique: The Magazine of Graphic Design Thinking” and “Adobe Magazine”; and has been an invited speaker and workshop leader for groups such as the International Institute for Information Design, Mead Paper Company, Poynter Institute for Media Studies, and Columbia College (Chicago) Department of Marketing.</p>

<p>For 16 years before earning her Ph.D. at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (1992), Carolyn was an exhibiting artist and taught studio art and art education in public schools and in higher education in the Art Departments of Monmouth University (New Jersey) and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. >>></p>

<p>Looks like it is a good idea to work as an artist before pursuing an advanced degree.</p>

17

<p>[Larry</a> Wright appointed Managing Director of Bellevue Arts Museum in Washington](<a href=“http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=50682]Larry”>http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=50682)
today’s e-news
PhD UW Madison in communications to nice but stressful museum job not many folks would willing to take.</p>

<p>I met someone who manages art foundation and being told that, there are so many museums having hard time to fill director’s position.
younger generation do not commit to one institution anymore, there is always something better, fun-er and not stick to it to make the place and the person grow, to be able to pay back to the community that gave the person chance and education to begin with.
Like the old Met guy the one before current director, or the even worse one that one before that, if geezers stay at helm too long, I could see that it will breed problems.
But hire someone that would “work” for the time-being and not focusing on long time goals, that worries those right minded old generation who dedicate their life to preserve and promote art and artists who make it happen.
I don’t know
any paying legit art job, at any level, in any city would be blessing.
would I see it differently if I (or my kid) were to be searched and hunted nationally and internationally?
wowowowow</p>

18

<p>colcon:
Sorry for reply back to you so late! My mind did work well to get to what I want to say …
The guy: Walid Raad is my daughter’s video teacher this year and that is why I searched him and found out the “PH.D. of Visual and Cultural Studies” program.
After bears posted more detail information of that program, I realized it is similiar to Art history in many ways.</p>

<p>Now you showed us another person: Carolyn M Bloomer, went through the Ph.D option like Walid Raad. It is not easy but maybe a good choice fot some kids but not all of them.</p>

<p>Bears:
I like the way you say :“nice but stressful museum job”. But to someone it maybe very easy job. Someone just born the way be able to do that kind of job. Yes for many it will be nice but stressful. </p>

<p>Am I right on the museum job? could it be an easy job to certain people? I have no experience in it, really welcome anyone who knows more about it to give us more insight.</p>

19

<p>I was going thru old mail and found this
Artcenter teacher paints banks on fire, paintings sold sold $$$.
you never know what sells/when you find success.
[Hot</a> Los Angeles painter of the moment Alex Schaefer’s bank on fire work heats up art world](<a href=“http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=50457]Hot”>http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=50457)</p>

20

<p>The problem with entering a PhD program today is that you are dedicating over 7 years of your life to something that may have no payoff. There are very few jobs currently open in academia, especially on tenure-track, so grads find themselves working in tiny towns at horrible schools as “assistant adjuncts” for very very little money. Other options do include those museum jobs, which are tough but do pay a lot more–however, these are extremely competitive positions. Just go to the Met’s job application website and you’ll see what I mean. You really have to love art history to make that time and effort worth it.</p>

<p>None of these options, however, are very conducive to working on the side as a fine artist. A director of a museum, or even a curator, works much beyond a typical 9-5 job. I still say the best option for a recent art grad is getting a part-time job that pays enough to live on, perhaps in a museum or gallery, or simply at a coffee shop, and living frugally. I say this as a recent grad who is trying to do the same–not easy, but it is the only way right now that I can envision myself being able to make as much work as I do. Since June my work has been in three shows, one of which I just traveled halfway across the US for–a great opportunity I couldn’t have taken if I worked five days a week or was in an academic program.</p>