<p>@Exodius
which is why it is a bogus ranking that no one should look at.</p>
<p>I agree this ranking system is suspect. But there isn’t a “correct” ranking system. All attempts to holistically rank complex institutions like colleges and universities are flawed in some way. No prospective student should seriously think that it matters whether Stanford or Princeton is higher ranked on any of these lists. </p>
<p>Using a variety of resources is the best way to learn about anything. And this system, being “different” is interesting and adds to the discussion. </p>
<p>The strength of the West Point and Annapolis alumni network is legendary, and anyone who doesn’t think it is doesn’t know what they are talking about. And I speak as an outsider. Two random guys wearing West Point rings who are complete strangers can spot each other and have an instant bond that you or I could never have with them. Two random Harvard grads would never have that bond unless they had other connections. Think of West Point and Annapolis as schools that are also giant fraternities and semi-secret societies that also go back 200 years.</p>
<p>Does that network apply everywhere, like Harvard, Yale and Princeton does? No, but within their own circle, it certainly does.</p>
<p>MrMom,
That is if you want your career in the Navy, Army, or Air Force. That is where they network.
I don’t know of any Fortune 500 executives that graduated Navy, Army, Air Force… but I can provide you a long list of those who graduated the ivy’s.
And if you look at the banking industry, they hire their own… meaning they hire Ivy’s.
So, who cares about that Navy network when all it is for the most part is jobs with the gov’t.</p>
<p><a href=“10 Fortune 500 military CEOs - Alex Gorsky (5) - FORTUNE”>http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/fortune/1205/gallery.500-military-ceos.fortune/5.html</a></p>
<p>If you can’t find CEO’s who are Academy grads, you aren’t trying very hard - which says you just want to reinforce your already set opinion. Took me one simple Google search to find one - the CEO of Johnson & Johnson. </p>
<p>Yes, there are more Ivies in the CEO ranks because most top academy grads probably go in thinking they want to become general officers, not CEOs. How many generals do the Ivies produce? I’m sure there are a few, but one doesn’t go into the military to become a CEO.</p>
<p>As for your sniffing at government jobs - there is more to life than being executive of a Fortune 500 company. I hear pope doesn’t pay very well either, but it has some nice perks.</p>
<p>Here is list of Fortune 500 CEO and where they went to school. 2 lists.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/articles/2012/05/14/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-school”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/articles/2012/05/14/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-school</a></p>
<p><a href=“Best Online Bachelor's Degree of Business Administration”>http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/colleges-with-highest-number-fortune-500-ceo-graduates/</a></p>
<p>Both of those lists seem to be including things other than undergrad degrees, which is all the Academies award, so that’s cheating a bit. And a bunch of CEOs got their MBA from Harvard - duh! Try looking at just the undergrad degree, and Harvard’s advantage shrinks considerably - Notre Dame is within one and Yale doesn’t seem to make the list - or it’s pretty low.</p>
<p>I agree with VSGPeanut101. The ranking “adds to the discussion.” I think it’s much better than the Forbes and US News rankings, and it gives colleges without top-tier graduate schools a chance to shine.</p>
<p>The Military Academies do not try to be everything for everyone, but for the students they cater to, they are great. The four service academies measured rank #1-4 in “College Experience.” Yale is #14, and the other Ivies are some distance behind.</p>
<p>Nevermind.</p>
<p>A request to posters: don’t attack the metric (solely) because you don’t like the result. The ranking is far from perfect, but the placements of the Academies are not the causes of its imperfection. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While I agree with the larger point that the Federal Service Academies have an impressive alum network and topflight academics, I’m not sure about the academies being harder to get into than the Ivies 30 years ago. </p>
<p>Many folks I knew who applied and/or attended the military academies during the early to mid-'80s mentioned how it wasn’t a popular option among many students in our area(NYC)…especially ones who were Ivy contenders because the “Vietnam War” syndrome was still a factor with them and/or their parents. </p>
<p>One older alum from my public magnet who graduated in the mid-'80s whose father and close neighbor of my family recounted how after meeting his friends at graduation he and they both shared absolute shock he turned down a full FA/scholarship package to MIT to attend Annapolis. Then again, he was gung-ho about submarines so it made sense as he wasn’t sure he’d get it with MIT’s NROTC at the time. </p>
<p>However, that started to change by the late '80s and accelerated after Desert Storm so by the time I was in HS during the early-mid-'90s, the FSA were getting as hard/harder than the Ivies. More importantly, turning down elite schools, including HYPSMCC for a FSA was no longer considered odd as opposed to nearly a decade before. </p>
<p>However, this also depended on factors such as whether the applicant was applying straight out of high school or applied after enlisting a few years with a good/stellar military record. I knew someone who entered West Point during the late '90s as the latter who wouldn’t have been able to gain admission there straight out of high school or to comparable civilian elite colleges due to his mediocre HS record by his own admission. </p>
<p>The list makes a great deal of common sense and the posters resisting it are exhibiting that thirty years old USNews syndrome, that any ranking without Harvard at the top is “b.s.”</p>
<p>On the contrary, it makes perfect sense that the service academies - or any other baccalaureate program that leads to an entry-level job - will earn the undying devotion of a large cross section of alumni. It explains the relatively high performance of colleges with undergraduate degrees in accounting and the relatively poor performance of so-called, “feeder schools”, colleges where a large number of alumni feel they require an additional degree in order to have a secure future. If you have dual degrees from two equally prestigious schools, which are you going to be more grateful to, the one where you played football or the one that is responsible for the profession you work in? </p>
<p>In fact, this poll has made me rethink the usefulness of comparing colleges according to how many baccalaureate graduates go on to attain Ph.ds. Do they really reflect anything other than the relative wealth of those graduates and their ability to take on debt while postponing careers? Sure sounds like it.</p>
<p>Bump .</p>
<p>Some fascinating listings. Unsurprisingly, small liberal arts colleges dominate. (Am I posting in the right forum?)</p>
<p>Centre College is the only school that makes each list. Kalamazoo, Grinnell, Spelman, Morehouse, Yale, and Sewanee come close.</p>
<hr>
<p>Top 20 schools – Intellectual Development (% of surveyed alumni who strongly agree that their college experience “developed them intellectually”)</p>
<ol>
<li>Sewanee: University of the South</li>
<li>Reed College</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Kenyon College</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College</li>
<li>Swarthmore College</li>
<li>U. of Chicago</li>
<li>Wesleyan University</li>
<li>Bryn Mawr College</li>
<li>Scripps College</li>
<li>Davidson College</li>
<li>Harvey Mudd College</li>
<li>Carleton College</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>Grinnell College</li>
<li>Pomona College</li>
<li>Mount Holyoke College</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
<li>United States Military Academy</li>
<li>Haverford College</li>
</ol>
<p>Social development (% of surveyed alumni who strongly agree that their college experience “developed them socially”):</p>
<ol>
<li>Sewanee: University of the South</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Spelman College</li>
<li>Washington and Lee University</li>
<li>Morehouse College</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College</li>
<li>Appalachian State University</li>
<li>The College of Wooster</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
<li>Gonzaga University</li>
<li>Hamilton College</li>
<li>Colorado College</li>
<li>Wake Forest University</li>
<li>Citadel Military College of South Carolina</li>
<li>Bucknell University</li>
<li>Grinnell College</li>
<li>UNC Chapel Hill</li>
<li>Howard University</li>
<li>College of the Holy Cross</li>
<li>Amherst College</li>
</ol>
<p>Friendship Development:</p>
<ol>
<li>Morehouse College</li>
<li>Sewanee: University of the South</li>
<li>U.S. Military Academy</li>
<li>Spelman College</li>
<li>Hampton University</li>
<li>U.S. Naval Academy</li>
<li>Washington and Lee University</li>
<li>Kenyon College</li>
<li>U.S. Coast Guard Academy</li>
<li>Citadel Military College of South Carolina</li>
<li>The College of Wooster</li>
<li>St. Olaf College</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Davidson College</li>
<li>U.S. Air Force Academy</li>
<li>Bucknell University</li>
<li>College of the Holy Cross</li>
<li>Grinnell</li>
<li>Swarthmore</li>
</ol>
<p>Preparation for Career Success:</p>
<ol>
<li>U.S. Military Academy</li>
<li>U.S. Naval Academy</li>
<li>U.S. Air Force Academy</li>
<li>Citadel Military College of South Carolina</li>
<li>U.S. Coast Guard Academy</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Morehouse College</li>
<li>Spelman College</li>
<li>Hampton University</li>
<li>Georgia Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Harvey Mudd College</li>
<li>Sewanee: University of the South</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College</li>
<li>Washington and Lee University</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Davidson College</li>
<li>Mississippi State University</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>Appalachian State University</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
</ol>
<hr>
<p>Overall assessment (comprises the above factors and a few more):</p>
<ol>
<li>Morehouse College</li>
<li>Spelman College</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
<li>UNC Chapel Hill</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Appalachian State University</li>
<li>U.S. Naval Academy</li>
<li>Auburn University</li>
<li>Sewanee: University of the South</li>
<li>Texas A&M University</li>
<li>U.S. Military Academy</li>
<li>U. of Virginia</li>
<li>Virginia Tech U.</li>
<li>Brigham Young U.</li>
<li>Grinnell College</li>
<li>U. of Florida</li>
<li>Citadel Military College of South Carolina</li>
<li>U.C. Berkeley</li>
<li>Georgia Institute of Technology</li>
</ol>
<h2>20. Kalamazoo College</h2>
<p>Lowest % of alumni who “strongly agree that they wish they had chosen another college”:</p>
<ol>
<li>Yale U.</li>
<li>Morehouse College</li>
<li>Appalachian State U.</li>
<li>Auburn University</li>
<li>Spelman College</li>
<li>Reed College</li>
<li>Hampton University</li>
<li>Sewanee</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>UNC Chapel Hill</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.</li>
<li>U. of Florida</li>
<li>Grinnell College</li>
<li>Stanford University</li>
<li>Colarado College</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College</li>
<li>Texas A&M University</li>
<li>Mississippi State University</li>
<li>U. of Virginia</li>
</ol>
<p>Highest % who would strongly agree that they would “recommend their colleges to prospective students today”:</p>
<ol>
<li>Spelman College</li>
<li>Texas A&M University</li>
<li>Yale U.</li>
<li>Sewanee</li>
<li>UNC Chapel Hill</li>
<li>Auburn University</li>
<li>Appalachian State University</li>
<li>Morehouse College</li>
<li>Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>Clemson University</li>
<li>College of Charleston</li>
<li>Grinnell College</li>
<li>U. of Virginia</li>
<li>California Polytechnic State University</li>
<li>U. of Georgia</li>
<li>Stanford U.</li>
<li>U. of Florida</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College. </li>
</ol>
<p>Value for the Money (% who strongly agree that their colleges were worth the money):</p>
<ol>
<li>U.S. Military Academy</li>
<li>U.S. Air Force Acadeny</li>
<li>U.S. Naval Academy</li>
<li>U.S. Coast Guard Acadeny</li>
<li>Georgia Tech</li>
<li>Rice U.</li>
<li>Citadel Military College of South Carolina</li>
<li>Brigham Young U.</li>
<li>U. of Virginia</li>
<li>UNC Chapel Hill</li>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>Morehouse College</li>
<li>U.C. Berkeley</li>
<li>William and Mary</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Louisiana State U.</li>
<li>Spelman College</li>
<li>CUNY City College</li>
<li>Texas A&M University</li>
<li>U. of Wyoming</li>
</ol>
<p>Forgot one. Sorry, 15-minute edit rule.</p>
<p>Overall happiness (% “very happy” alumni among graduates):</p>
<ol>
<li>Centre College</li>
<li>U.S. Naval Academy</li>
<li>Furman University</li>
<li>U.S. Military Academy</li>
<li>U.S. Air Force Academy</li>
<li>Auburn U.</li>
<li>Texas Tech U.</li>
<li>Brigham Young U.</li>
<li>Gonzaga U.</li>
<li>Washington and Lee U.</li>
<li>Mississippi State U.</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College</li>
<li>Wheaton College</li>
<li>St. Olaf College</li>
<li>Scripps College</li>
<li>Texas Christian University</li>
<li>Yale U.</li>
<li>Appalachian State U.</li>
<li>Georgia Tech</li>
<li>Kansas State U.</li>
</ol>
<p>I thought that someone would try to rebut these rankings. Are they unimpeachable or absurd? :-/ </p>
<p>Interesting. Thanks for posting the google book link, wasn’t planning to subscribe.</p>
<p>As for the service academies…IDK if it’s true of all but many get an excellent free education, serve a few years then move into a non-military career. I have a USCGA graduate friend who did exactly that. She does very, very well.</p>
<p>I note very high satisfaction with HBCUs also.</p>
<p>Some of the schools in that ranking are special cases for students looking for a different environment - HBCUs, Academies, Mormon schools. If they graduated they made it through and were happy with their environment. The “wash outs” aren’t queried.</p>
<p>The gaps between schools often thought to be fungible are worth noting.</p>
<p>Princeton – #1
Yale – #4
Stanford – #12
Harvard – #35</p>
<p>Dartmouth – #22
Brown --#38
Cornell – #42
Penn – #51
Columbia --#106</p>
<p>Amherst – #20
Pomona – #23
Williams – #40</p>
<p>Swarthmore – #21
Carleton – #48
Oberlin – #93
Reed – #102
Chicago – #136
Bard – #177</p>
<p>Mudd – #11
MIT – #26
Cal. Institute of Technology – #39</p>
<p>Perhaps they are different schools–that appeal to different people–after all… </p>