I would add that URM’s in schools that practice “holistic admissions” are not treated as monolithic blocks with AA’s getting X bonus points, Hispanics Y points, NA Z points. I have to think socio-economic background, whether the student is first gen, and geography all come into play. Plenty of URM’s in the results threads with stellar stat’s get denied admissions, others with mediocre ones get in. Those usually point to something in their subjective component (compelling essay, great LoR, great EC demonstrating some outstanding characteristic or achievement) that put them over the top. The “Gatekeepers” provides an excellent insight on how at least 1 AO of a selective school subjectively recalibrated for URM’s (and ORM’s).
Guess it depends in your definition of dynamic. The whole can - and do - benefit. No one said diversity is there to serve the majority only.
Not my experience and definitely not my kids’ experience. YMMV I guess.
“Disproportionately” does not mean majority. For example, if the 1G LI students are 30% URM while other students are 20% URM, then 1G LI students are disproportionately URM even though the majority of 1G LI students are not URM.
“Secondly, it’s not really debatable that diverse experiences and perspectives improve teams and contributions - there’s research supporting that. It’s also true that the only function of racial/ethnic minorities is not to make campuses a “dynamic place” for the majority to attend - to be a feature, like the library or the rock climbing wall.”
I didn’t bring up the word dynamic wrt this discussion, just responding to the use of the word in this context is debatable. I’ve seen the studies on diverse groups in companies/orgs, not college, if you have such, it would be good to see these.
“IMO it’s not political correctness. Most schools see it as part of their mission to improve society as an engine of social mobility, to educate those who don’t come from educated backgrounds.”
In that case, the graduate schools should be way more involved than they are now in admitting URMs. While studies have shown that there is very little correlation with undergrad school and economic success, there is a higher correlation between where people went to grad school and how they did economically. There are people who went to schools ranked below 50 undergrad and went to a top-10 grad school and are doing real well. However, the reverse is usually not true. I’m with you on social and economic mobility, but it would have more impact in grad schools and companies, imo. B-schools do look at hooks like URM, legacy (George Bush ha!), but the other’s primarily don’t. UC’s dropped it for their med and law schools after they were sued for reverse discrimination (med in the 70s, law in the 90s, I think).
If this is going to morph into minorities and “issues” one perceives, it needs to go on the race thread.
It’s now off track.
- I was talking about first gen students, not URMs.
- Comparatively few people ever go to grad school
- It is low income and first gen students who benefit most from attending an selective college, undergrad.
I’m going to disagree with juillet. AOs might give an admissions boost to first-gen, low-income, or being from Applachia, but 98% of the time, when someone says URM they are referring to race or ethnicity. Such an expansive definition is not in common usage.
first gen, low income, geodiversity from underrepresented states like North Dakota, recruited athlete are all hooks–
so is URM. URM is a hook (alone and with other hooks).
@preppedparent, the things you list are NOT hooks. Maybe a tip, at most. URM is the only hook you listed, and athlete is not, unless you are recruited.
You can call it “tip” but most consider them “hooks” here. After you post 1426 x and have read as many or more, then we’ll talk.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Let’s move on from defining hook vs. tip. The topic has been done to death elsewhere, and, more importantly, was not a question asked by the OP. Stay on topic please.
“If this is going to morph into minorities and “issues” one perceives, it needs to go on the race thread.
It’s now off track.”
The OP had the word URM and hook, so it would be surprising if it didn’t morph into minorities (again, since minority is implied in URM and issues (since hook implies a possible, unfair advantage, perceived or not).