<p>Basically, I am white and I have two white friends and three Asian friends who all applied to Harvard and a couple of other Ivies. We all had 2250+ SAT scores, 3.9+ GPAs, and really good ECs, etc. All of us were rejected from all of the Ivies we applied to (one was accepted to Hopkins, though). </p>
<p>A black girl ranked much lower in my class with a 2040 SAT, a 3.9 GPA, and virtually no ECs, other than one year of softball and one year of some volunteer club, was accepted to Harvard, Brown (with a Likely Letter), Stanford, Princeton, and Hopkins. The same girl was also accepted to six other schools with top merit scholarships at all of them. The only rejection she received was from MIT. </p>
<p>Am I right to feel anger about this? Sure, I'm happy for her and everything, but I can't help but feel that college admissions are so unfair sometimes. And I know that admissions to the Ivies are generally a crapshoot, but this just seems unbelievable to me.</p>
<p>Hey… same problem here,
Valedictorian (Most rigorous course work with a 98% average out of every class taken in highschool), 34 ACT, chemistry and math II SAT II 750 both, 8 AP classes all 5’s one 3, All state athlete with a state championship ring, amateur body builder and started my own business…but im a white male from a middle class family. I got denied by cornell dartmouth harvard duke vanderbilt, stanford, and rice. I feel angry because i know several URMs that got accepted to ivies with much lower stats… one black male at my school got into cornell and harvard with an ACT of 28 and a 3.6… i hate saying this but colleges don’t look for potential anymore…they are looking for minorities. simple as that… sorry about you and your friends luck (from chatter on the web i hear its even harder for asian males :/)…i feel your pain</p>
<p>You’re not being irrational, but be prepared to have a debate raging on this thread soon about affirmative action. </p>
<p>I agree that it can be upsetting, especially when you and your friends have worked so hard, but try to picture yourself as that girl. She probably knows that everyone thinks that she got in only because she’s African American, so it’s bound to suck for her for the rest of this year if you hang out in the same circles. It’s not her fault that she’s a URM, and if I were her, I’d use that to my advantage as well. Just don’t talk behind her back, and try to turn the conversation away from affirmative action if she’s around. I’m not trying to say that you’re being mean to her, but these things can happen unintentionally.</p>
<p>Race-based affirmative action is a lose-lose scenario in my opinion. The URM feels awkward when they get what their ORM friends wanted (at least from what I’ve seen), and people who might have deserved the spots even more get passed over.</p>
<p>^^ Studies at Duke have confirmed that the URMs for the most part try the rigorous coursework in freshmen year, struggle, and virtually ALL end up concentrated in things like “African-American Studies” or “Women’s Studies.” The Duke study concluded that the URMs would do much better for themselves and for society in less rigorous institutions, but the Ivies regard themselves as social science institutions (not just academic institutions), so you won’t see this situation change, even in the face of evidence such as Duke’s.</p>
<p>You’re all taking something you think or that you read somewhere and giving it more weight than it deserves. I could call that high school level thinking- but lots of adults who think they’re smart think the same. Reading CC or other forums isn’t proof enough, it’s others’ opinions. </p>
<p>You don’t get accepted because you think you’re great. You get accepted because the darned adcoms think you’re great. They read the whole app package. They care if you seem shallow, pompous or immature, had empty leadership roles, bought yourself some interesting summer experiences, can’t write a decent essay, gave idiotic answers to supp questions- and they read those LoRs. Some kids have slightly lower stats, but a really interesting perspectve, some unusual side bits, some challenges he/she overcame, a charming essay, LoRs that personalize. You can’t judge your own application or even your friends’. Your whole frame of reference is your own hs experience, not college. You could be BMOC and still not impress an adcom at a top school. But, no, this argument that Asians have trouble and URMs get their seats, will go on and on. Sorry. Yes, hooks help. But no top college is out there solely picking on hooks. Even URMS or first-to-college kids have to be in-range.</p>
<p>it’s pretty much the same story at my son’s competitive magnet school. kids with high test scores/ GPA’s and tons of AP’s didn’t get into most of the elite schools. what’s the point of making kids take the SAT/ACT, subject tests, AP tests and giving grades in general if you’re not going to use them for admissions. there should be a minimum cutoff, such as 34 ACT, 3.8 GPA, 8 AP tests, 750+ on subject tests for all students regardless of race, athletic ability etc. . . .it’s basically reverse discrimination. . . .to the OP, you guys are obviously smart and hard-working. try to make the best of the opportunities given to you. best of luck in your future endeavors</p>
<p>I’d like to see the data on the Duke Study, too. Here’s what another Duke-related study says…</p>
<p>“The Pratt School of Engineering at Duke has an award-winning outreach program that brings minority and disabled undergraduates to campus for summer research experiences (see [Non-Duke</a> Student Opportunities and REU Programs | Engineering at Duke University, Pratt School](<a href=“http://www.pratt.duke.edu/about/outreach.php]Non-Duke”>Engineering in Service to Society | Duke Pratt School of Engineering)). The majority of URM students come to the program from minority-serving colleges and universities, and roughly 80 percent of these students go on to either graduate or medical school.”</p>
<p>Of about 1670 Harvard freshmen in 2010-11, 252 were Asian descent. That’s 15%. The US population is rougly 4.8% Asian. Hispanic: 144, 8.6%, while the US pop is roughly 16%. And 99 Blacks, about 6%, versus 12.6% of the general population. So, where do you find the over- or under-representation? And, what does it say if you assume every URM is underqualified?</p>
<p>I completely disagree! Using affirmative action to make-up for racial discrimination is like using racism to negate racism…it doesn’t make any sense and in many ways, both parties lose. The white people don’t benefit from it because they are put at a disadvantage and many URM don’t benefit from it because they are either put into a school far beyond their academic capabilities or they are seen as “handicapped” in a way because they got into a school with lower stats than others. Affirmative action does nothing to solve for the racial discrimination in the past and, if anything, it only helps to fuel such racism nowadays.</p>
<p>That girl must have something that made her stand out besides her race. It’s one thing to get accepted to one top 20 school but Harvard, Brown (with a Likely Letter), Stanford, Princeton, Hopkins, and other schools with top merit scholarships? I highly doubt she got in all those schools by race alone.</p>
<p>Yes, you are being irrational. At the top schools, you have to meet the academic ‘cut-off’, which undoubtedly, you all did. Then the selection criteria changes to locating the students whom they feel will enable them to build the most interesting class. Your class-mate who got the acceptances had life experiences and a perspective that these schools wanted to include and is in short supply. Your life experiences and perspectives were, apparently, represented in abundance in the applicant pool. </p>
<p>Given that life will throw many challenges at her as a URM (and probably already has including this bit of grousing), be grateful that you don’t have to walk in her shoes and be suspected constantly of having received something that you, and others, seem to feel she didn’t deserve.</p>
<p>Ps not all of the schools she got accepted to could be wrong. They all didn’t acceptmher just because she is black. She must be pretty special in all those admins eyes</p>