@coolguy40… Nice 
OP: does UMich offer already contain student loans?
^^^^^Gee! It took 15 posts until someone finally mentioned that UNC does not offer engineering.
Go ahead and use terms like “douchey” to describe a school if you like. It’s your opinion and you really do have free speech. In fact, the shoe just may fit! Spend the 10K to go to Michigan. 40K in debt is nothing if you are going to be an Engineer. Your first job will pay you more than 40K and over a lifetime as an Engineer one day you will laugh that you were worried to spend that amount of money to get started. Just make sure you pay your parents back with interest if that is where the money is coming from in the first place. Honestly I think you are very lucky if you can get an entire Engineering degree for just 40K.
Can you list your actual financial aid akage de Michigan?
What major we’re you admitted to at UNC?
I don’t get it. What do you plan to study at UNC if you want to be an engineer? What kind of engineering education will you get at UNC?
@OP, Firstly, congratulations on just being admitted, let alone offered aid, at three world class universities! If one day ANY of my children find myself in your shoes, I’ll be ecstatic beyond belief.
Duke is an uber-elite, world-renowned college. Like many great schools, however, it’s not for everyone (that of course does NOT make it “bad” in any way). For the purposes of this decision, and particularly in light of the costs involved, I think there’s no question you can eliminate Duke from the pool of three.
UNC is also an elite, world-renowned college. I’d easily put the home of the Tar Heels among the 5 or 6 best public universities in the U.S.
All that said, Michigan and A2 are a special combination. Our campus has it’s own unique vibe; school spirit is strong (as with UNC and Duke); the campus is diverse; the town is lovely–even though, yes, it can be quite cold in winter!
Re our engineering programs, IMSO they’re second-to-none. My roommate of two years was from France, and literally considered a “genius” (he now runs his own lab in Paris). His first choice: Michigan.
Now to the stickier issue: Money. If you end up with a BS degree in any engineering field from the University of Michigan, and only $40,000 in debt, you’ll be in excellent shape. Now, I"m NOT making light of student debt at all, but I knew MANY kids graduating from both my alma maters with far more debt than that, and to a man/woman, they all did just fine. No, I’m not saying “any amount of debt is ok; just get your education!” Not at all. But $40,000 worth of debt for such a degree, I just don’t think would be even close to a dealbreaker.
Finally, I’m going to show my age here, but be completely honest: When I was younger, the whole prestige deal meant probably way to much to me. Does it matter? Yes. Is it everything? No. You’re already ahead of the game in strongly considering FIT in addition to other merits a college might offer. In short, I’d much rather spend for years at a school I loved, and felt at home in, than four years at the most elite, prestigious, world-famous school, I’m talking any super-famous school here, where I might feel like I’m biding time.
I’m confident you and your family will make the decision for all involved, one way or the other, in the end. Good luck wherever you land and GO BLUE!
“In short, I’d much rather spend four years at a school I loved, and felt at home in, than four years at the most elite, prestigious, world-famous school, I’m talking any super-famous school here, where I might feel like I’m biding time.”
USCWolverine, I agree 100%. Of course, in this case, it just so happens that the school the OP loves happens to be the most prestigious globally. Michigan’s global reputation is at least as strong, if not strong, than Duke’s or UNC’s. Nationally, UNC is not quite on par with Michigan except in the Southeast. Duke is a relative newcomer, but in the past 40-50 years, it has managed to climb the ladder nicely and is now considered a peer of Michigan’s. But since the OP is interested in Engineering, there is no question which of those three university is the most prestigious. In short, there is no sacrifice in prestige in this case.
OP, you’re not crazy but I would definitely caution against being dismissive of an entire student body based on such limited exposure.
Also, for all this talk about “global reputation” (the world reputation rankings have Michigan over Duke, Penn, Cornell, Hopkins, Dartmouth, Brown, etc.) employers in the US know that it is significantly more difficult to be admitted to those schools than it is to be admitted to Michigan. That counts for something.
Here is some salary data from the federal government:
Duke: $77,900
Michigan: $60,100
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/search/?degree=b&name=duke&sort=advantage:desc
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?170976-University-of-Michigan-Ann-Arbor
JenniferClint, employers do not really care that much about selectivity, and they certainly do not differentiate between the universities you listed and Michigan.
Starting salaries mean very little in a vacuum. You need to consider context. What are the students majoring in? Where are they choosing to work? What sorts of careers are they pursuing?
According to the federal government website you shared with us, the starting salary for Brown students is $63k. For Amherst College, it is under $60k. For Williams and Swarthmore, it is under $55k. For Chicago and Northwestern it is $65k. For Vanderbilt, it is $64k. Are all those colleges nd universities inferior to Duke as far as employers are concerned? Or are there other factors to consider, such as geography and the types of degrees conferred?
Generally, the larger the percentage of STEM graduates, the higher the starting salaries. Georgia Tech graduates do much better than Emory graduates ($75k vs 60K). Why is that? Are GT students smarter? Is GT more selective? Or is it simply because 90% of GT graduates majored in STEM fields, as opposed to 30% at Emory? Same goes for Harvey Mudd vs Pomona ($75k vs $50k). And in those two cases, geography is not even a factor, just major.
That being said, caramelmac intends on majoring in Engineering/CS. Starting salaries for Michigan engineering/CS majors will be competitive with those of engineering and CS majors at Duke.
“Also, for all this talk about “global reputation” (the world reputation rankings have Michigan over Duke, Penn, Cornell, Hopkins, Dartmouth, Brown, etc.) employers in the US know that it is significantly more difficult to be admitted to those schools than it is to be admitted to Michigan.”
That is actually not accurate. Successful OOS applicants to Michigan face similar odds and have similar profiles as successful applicants to all the universities you listed. Successful In-state applicants face better odds, but will have similar academic profiles, but slightly lower test scores, mainly for lack of effort, not lack of academic ability or potential. The suggestion that Michigan students are “significantly” inferior to students at other top universities is not accurate.
Our son is facing a similar dilemma. He was accepted into Michigan Engineering, but unfortunately he is only being offered a grant of about $12k year. So It would be a real stretch to send him there, but the Engineering program there is really one of the best as noted in many of the previous posts. He was accepted to several other colleges and universities with great engineering programs OOS, but we are most likely going to pick a program in state because of the merit scholarship that will basically pay full tuition for him at a university in our state. One other thing that we looked at was the salaries that majors from the different schools earned on payscale.com for the same degree (i.e. in his case bachelors in electrical engineering), we were surprised that students from the program in our state were actually making more than those from the “better” OOS program. Some of this may be due to the regional opportunities and recruitment. So you may also want to consider were you plan to live and work in your final choice. Leaving school debt free is always a good thing.
For example on Payscale.com:
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=University_of_Michigan_-_Ann_Arbor/Salary
@borisdarice. If you really notice you can’t count on sites like payscale etc. Most of this is averages and lots of schools are not updated. There will definitely be regional reason why some get paid more /less then other schools. But I have never seen huge swings either way. Full tuition… Go for it!! At the end of the day… They are all getting jobs (I hope)
This is so funny, the OP comes on a UMich forum, slams 4 other schools and professes their love for UMich and its engineering program. For some unknown reason the OP applied to UNC which doesn’t have the major the OP is interested in. WTFO? OP, please go to UMich, you’ll fit right in.
^^^Nice comment CU123, “please go to Michigan, you’ll fit right in.” It seems the OP isn’t the only one who likes to “slam” other schools. At least he did it in the Michigan forum. What’s your excuse for commenting here?
I applied to UNC as an option for Biomedical engineering and computer science. But considering that Michigan is better all around for engineering, I no longer want UNC. I really didn’t think people would get so defensive on an anonymous college forum…
@caramelmac… Yep people get defensive and opinionated etc on college confidential… Welcome 
But if you really want engineering and Duke is not your thing. Take out the approximate $5,000/year and do work study to pay for books, entertainment etc. And or save it and pay back one if your smaller loans or part of a loan.
You can also just apply for a job while in school. They will work around your school schedule /test schedules also if needed.
If not already stated, there is a chance in your sophomore /"junior year to make some money during the summer internships. I wouldn’t count on it but if you do make some money then you can pay back more loans.
Alexandre’s “oh the in-state students didn’t try hard enough” excuse is getting pretty tiresome. How do you know whether or not they tried to do well? We can only make a judgment based on the data that is available.
Jenniferclint, like I said, the average SAT/ACT for in-state students is significantly lower, and yet, they had similar high school records (curriculum, APs, GPAs, class rank etc…) and track records at Michigan. Most of the in-state students I met simply did not bother preparing as hard for the SAT/ACT. They had specific test score “requirements” based on their school’s record of placing their students at Michigan. Those have not changed over the years since the in-state applicant pool, and the number of in-state students admitted, has not changed in recent years.
At any rate, even if you want to look at raw data, and assuming you believe that only SAT/ACT scores are an indicator of intelligence and potential, I don’t see how one can feel a noticeable difference between a student body with average test scores of 1410/31.5 and a student body with average test scores of 1480/33. Those are not exactly extreme differences in test score averages. We are not talking Caltech (1570/35 test score average) vs Arizona State (1150/25 test score average). Duke and Michigan have comparable student bodies. Your assertion that employers treat Duke graduates differently from Michigan graduates is incorrect.
It’s important to explore the context behind numbers.
Duke does not have a dedicated Art + Design School, a School of Social Work, College of Nursing, dedicated School of Music, Theatre, and Dance, School of Education, etc., all which bring down the salary average for Michigan. Compare Michigan Engineers with Duke Engineers (for the same disciplines), Michigan Economists with Duke Economists and you will not see as drastic a difference.