<p>No need to get defensive. I think the original poster who brought up the climate at NWU was just worried that the campus might start looking like a set for the Real Housewives of Wherever. She didn’t think it would be a comfortable environment for her D.</p>
<p>And of course, all those girls could be pleasant and friendly, etc. It’s difficult to describe the subtleties of body language in words, far easier to observe in place and understand in context. It could be a colder way of looking at someone, a look of appraisal rather than a more open friendly face. It could be a dismissive flip of the hair, the old “cut dead”, a refusal to make eye contact. Turning your shoulders slightly away as someone approaches, etc. None of these always directly correspond with having more expensive clothing and accessories, it’s just that we’ve all experienced that when people want to freeze out other people, they use that body language, along with obvious symbols of wealth, to defend their own superior sense of self. </p>
<p>I’m not going to judge how anyone spends their money. I’ll just worry a bit if I’m not sure they can afford it. We all make those choices.</p>
<p>Pizza–it’s obvious you fit into the group we are discussing, we don’t really care one way or another how you want to act, what clothing you wear, where you take your kids on vacation, etc. Plenty of us have done the same and don’t feel the need to brag about it…that is the point we are tying to get across to you. People in polite society don’t brag about money, period.</p>
<p>As for what behaviors–feel free to google any psychology text book to look them but but nose in the air, snotty glances as someone not “dressed up”, the laughing that goes on after a “undesirable” walks by, etc. Watch this weeks tv show The Bachelor. Pay particular attention to Whitney and Bentley…</p>
<p>I believe Barnard College, as part of Columbia University, enjoys seamless access to all the academic offerings at Columbia (other than Core courses), as well as the extra-curricular programs and the research opportunities. It would seem really difficult to run out of courses or things to do at Barnard.</p>
<p>The Claremont Colleges – Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Harvey Mudd, Scripps and Pitzer – all in one geographical cluster, should also be able to overcome the outgrowth syndrome because of the consortium arrangement.</p>
<p>There are other partnership arrangements – Haverford with Bryn Mawr, plus Swarthmore and Penn, Wellesley and MIT, the Five Colleges Consortium consisting of Amherst, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Hampshire, and UMass – but I don’t know how well they work out in practice.</p>
<p>Would very much like to hear comments on those arrangements, as well as any others I missed, that help enlarge offerings and opportunities at LACs.</p>
<p>@mscollegmom - love the reality tv reference . . . really! Never seen The Bachelor, but my tomboy, sporty, academic D will flop in front of “Say Yes to the Dress” on Friday afternoon to unplug from the week. Early in her college search when she was in the reading Fiske and College ******* days and trying to sort regional LAC choices she ended up using the SYTHD test on some. The young women and associated families might be perfectly nice and friendly and appropriate for their region, but she just felt that “they’re not my people.” The guide books described those young women to a T and she decided no Muhlengerg, Bucknell, Hofstra, etc. Since the Atlanta version came out she feels like her no to Davidson was validated. Every guide book and post says, “if you go, bring your sundresses.” It’s a great school, but with all the choices out there, she didn’t feel like 4 years amongst the souther women was what she most wanted. I say, if guys can use the Chick-fil-a test, why not the Say Yes to the Dress test? You’ve got to narrow some how.</p>
<p>I’m probably going to regret chiming in on the messages sent by the purses/clothes of college aged kids. </p>
<p>One girl (or a smattering of girls here and there) on campus with a “purse of the moment”, dressed to the nines in easily identified designer clothing, with a manicure/pedicure and hair that matches is a girl who likes her fashion.</p>
<p>A campus full of girls like that is something else altogether… </p>
<p>Regardless of what we wish, purse/watch/shoe/clothing choices do send messages.</p>
<p>If Pizzagirl says her family went on an European trip, it is bragging. If people say they go on driving vacation and shop at Walmart, it is considered giving good value to their kids, and not bragging. I think that’s a bit self serving. It is a case of “you have good values, as long as you could only afford what I could afford.” it is the case with house, car, clothes, but what really gets to people is EDUCATION. We want to equalize everything. The idea someone could afford a better education for their kid is what really irks people. It is apparent in the 39k pre-school thread, and it is the same in every thread about paying for HYPS or some second rate public school. It gets to people that their kids could be disadvantaged.</p>
<p>I know this is slighly off topic, but last night I was watching Downton Abbey, and the old moneyed, titled daughter said to her new money, newpaper barron husband “Oh yes, your kind buys furniture while we inherit ours”. That made me giggle a bit.</p>
<p>But the only concern that I would have with walking around campus and seeing “obvious symbols of wealth” would be that my kid would not and could not be able to afford the recreational activities that his campus pals would partake in. And as far frome moneyed as I am, I sure as heck can tell the difference between someone just being happy to be able to afford the nicer things and someone who throws it up in people’s faces. And it’s a bit more than talking about being able to do those nice things or carrying a purse that costs more than that semester’s books. I find it very ironic that people are judging folks for having money by saying they judge others based on wealth or lack of it. Or is that hypocritical? And no, I’m not pointing fingers just noticing an overall tone.</p>
<p>Bragging about throwing around money in Europe and bragging about driving around in some rust bucket are both bragging.</p>
<p>That’s why I loved the “bragging thread” when it had devolved into people bragging about being able to wiggle their ears. Phew, a breath of fresh air!</p>
<p>I’ve lost track of how bags and BMWs relate to the LAC topic, but it’s a fascinating discussion. Right or wrong, people are constantly assessed by how they dress and accessorize. We know this as parents. It’s why we implore our kids to dress appropriately for interviews and why (in my very judgmental view) no rational parent lets a teenage girl run around dressed like a hooker. Many private and parochial schools (and even some publics) have student uniforms to eliminate the distraction of inappropriate clothing choices and to reduce the stress that arises when not everyone can afford the popular sneakers or trendy labels.</p>
<p>We also know that adults assess each other based on clothing. I remember an essay in The Utne Reader years ago advising environmental advocates who wanted their opinions to be taken seriously to suck it up and put on a suit when they go to a hearing. This was directed to a group who, in general, would bristle at others judging their character based on poverty-casual clothing.</p>
<p>Being fashion oblivious, I wouldn’t know a designer handbag if someone hit me with it, and both my kids are much the same way. However, teens seem to have their own radar about each other. I was intrigued to see my son make snap judgments about some of the schools we visited last year based on what I thought were some very weak clues. For instance, at Georgetown, we passed the student activities area, which that morning was occupied by a mere TWO tables – one for (iirc) a campus safety program and the other for a campus political party. Each table was staffed by one student. After we passed, my son said, “I can see why (a certain politically-minded friend) wants to go here, the students are very political.” Based on that??? Unless Georgetown has radically altered in the years since I left D.C., I happen to know he’s correct, but I sure didn’t see what he was seeing that day.</p>
<p>Why do we take our kids to visit campuses? We don’t really need to do it to evaluate academic offerings. Like it or not, part of what our kids are judging on these visits is if they think they would “fit in,” and they pick up on the subtle signals emitted by others in their teen tribe. For all I know, by the time we passed the student activities area at Georgetown, my son may have already been keyed to a “political” atmosphere based on message t-shirts or the like that didn’t even register with me as I was busy wondering why the tour wasn’t going to the library. Anyway, some kids may be signalled by designer bags and BMWs that the campus atmosphere may not be to their liking; others may reject a campus of grunge. To each her own.</p>
<p>I can’t cut and paste from this. The point seems to be we dress to look rich and impress those who have less… until we are so rich that we only dress to impress other rich folks :)</p>
<p>^^ agree! I could see some kids and moms deciding that a campus where kids are all in sweats and/or the famed PJ bottoms and slippers was sloppy or unacademic. Some don’t like too dressed up and others don’t like too dressed down or too grungy or too “earthy” or too much patchouli oil. Whatever it is, at a smaller school if the prevailing vibe for a kid is “these aren’t my people” maybe it’s time to look elsewhere.</p>
<p>Same for D, but in highschool. School is real balance of socio-economic groups, race, culture etc. Girlfriend group includes Chinese, Indian, Russian, Ukranian, Jewish, super conservative Christian, etc. but best friend could be twin and is often mistaken for D.</p>
<p>“Something to be said going to a large U. D1 had friends from different social economic background, but her best friend could be her twin.”</p>
<p>My daughter’s best female friend at her LAC is a member of the 1%. Her best male friend is the son of a truck driver. The young woman and young man have also been best buds through all 4 years of college. You can have a group of friends from different socio-economic backgrounds at LACs also.</p>
<p>saintfan–my DD and your DD would get along well. Not that she minds dressing up once in a while, she prefers to be comfortable in school. She isn’t out to impress anyone, she just is who she is. She has a wonderful outlook on life and is just an all around great kid with an awesome sense of humor. I wouldn’t want it any other way. The “midwest” LAC setting is PERFECT for her and I am glad we have many excellent schools to chose from.</p>
<p>Clothes / Styles is not the reason to pick or decline certain UG. UG has to match personality and wide range of current and potential interests (both academic and otherwise) of cetain applicant…or might as well to flip the coin. Chances are that it will be more accurate than prediction based on style of clothes worn on certain campus.</p>
<p>There’s no virtue in not having things you can’t afford anyway. I always find that things I conveniently cannot afford are useless luxuries that really, nobody should ever have, because it’s just not right :-). That goes for my hypothetical yacht, live-in butler, and private jet.</p>
:)</p>