<p>saintfan, you need to think up a few more analogies to go with the Trader Joe’s song.</p>
<p>[If</a> I Made a Commercial for Trader Joe’s - YouTube](<a href=“If I Made a Commercial for Trader Joe's - YouTube”>If I Made a Commercial for Trader Joe's - YouTube)</p>
<p>“All your favorite stuff, they don’t have anymore”. = ?</p>
<p>“It’s aloe chunk juice, whatever that is”. = oooh, what class would that be?</p>
<p>I need to think of the equivalent for the over abundance of mochi balls when what you really need is Tillamook Mud Slide ;-)</p>
<p>higgins2013,</p>
<p>Some programs at UIUC are 5 yr. programs, and students accepted into General Studies are often those rejected into their 1st choice major/program. They are not guaranteed acceptance into their major as sophomores, unless things have changed recently. And, even at LACs kids don’t always get the classes they want, when they want them.</p>
<p>Knowing many parents of UIUC students (our HS sends about 40/year) there’s no way to excuse its low 4-yr graduation rate due to 5-year BS/BA programs. B.Arch, typically a five-year program, isn’t offered as I recall. What other 5-year BA/BS programs are there besides extra semester for accounting that sometimes occurs. Let’s admit that 65% for 4-year graduation rate is a problem for a academic flagship university. Only 35 of every 100 students graduates on-time. And that’s $32,000/year for likely 5 or 6 years with no financial aid for typical upper middle-income students, while for $40,000/year that same student can probably find a high-quality Midwest LAC that gives merit aid and graduates most students within 4 years.</p>
<p>I remember that 4 year graduation rates at the state flagship were very low when I attended (as in about a third). Of course, this was years ago, when in-state tuition and total cost of attendance were inexpensive, so (a) it was not a big deal financially to stay an extra semester (and “working one’s way through college” was much more doable back then), and (b) the university was much less selective than it is now, with many students being delayed by having to take remedial English (> 50% of freshmen then, compared to < 10% now; remedial math enrollment was also much higher then). Many students also voluntarily took an average of fewer than 15 credit units per semester to reduce workloads.</p>
<p>Even then, the university did not like very extended stays, so there were minimum credit units per semester (12 or 13, depending on the division), and limitations on the number of semesters or credit units one could take as an undergraduate (depending on the division). 4 year graduation rate is much higher now (around 70%), but that is probably due mostly to higher costs (more incentive) and higher selectivity (with less remedial need, more AP credit, and fewer failed courses as side effects).</p>
<p>The highly selective expensive private LACs’ 4 year graduation rate probably has a lot to do with the selectivity and the cost. Also, state flagships may have more pre-professional students who take time off of school in co-op jobs. This means that such students take more than 4 calendar years, even though they may only spend 8 semesters in school as undergraduates.</p>
<p>Well the conversation about low graduation rates above really is public vs. private or maybe even some publics vs. privates, and not really public vs. LACs since there are lots of privates colleges other than LACs which boast of great graduation rates. Here in California the horrible atrocities committed on the UCs (the best public university system in the country, go bears) is a constant and sad discussion. Very smart kids who can’t graduate on time and can’t get their classes. Professors leaving to get better pay in better conditions. I’m a Cal Bear supporter through and through (and Id have been happy if S had wanted to go there, which he didnt), but lots of reasonable kids I know who started out wanting a big school UC experience, ended up choosing USC over UCLA, Northwestern over Cal, etc. etc. largely because of the issues over the budget impact on the system.</p>
<p>A quick and dirty search of 4-year Midwest flagship rates: PSU-Main 62.1%, IUB 52.5%, MSU 48.9%, OSU 48.5%, UW-M 48.4%, Purdue-WL 37.5%, UM-TC 45.4%.</p>
<p>Some others: UW-Seattle 53.9%, UF 58.1%, UT-Austin 50.9% </p>
<p>Of course many are higher, but UIUC holds up well.</p>
<p>To a certain extent, the college you go to is a “label”, and “brand name” that you carry with you the rest of your life.</p>
<p>So even though a small LAC may be a very fine school, if no one has ever heard of it, I am not sure that it is the best course of action to go to that school.</p>
<p>I have read, for example, that even people who live 5 miles from Pomona College have no idea it is a top school. And how many people have heard of Bowdoin, or Carleton, or Haverford, or Hamilton, or Colby, or Macalester?</p>
<p>Again, this does not mean they are good schools. Or even great schools. And I am sure there are many positives about going to such schools.</p>
<p>floridadad55–but you are also assuming that people have actually heard of Pomona…</p>
<p>After you get your first job, no one cares where you went to school. Most college grads end up working in the general region where their college is and the people that need to know, i.e. potential employers know the qualifications of those schools. If an employer is not familiar with a school from the Midwest, they have the same access we all have to the internet and can look up information if they need.</p>
<p>^^^ The reason many people may not have heard of them is because the general public is only aware of schools that are sports powerhouses. Anyone with any knowledge of academic standings would know these schools.</p>
<p>^^^Boy that is true. A lot more people have heard of Boise State than Pomona, but would you want to make your decision on that basis? But seriously, I do sometimes worry about the brand name thing too. No one ever asks me where Cal is. But I guess have to trust/hope that my kids’ sucesses will have more to do with a good education in an environment that fosters their creative and intellectual drive, and less to “branding.”</p>
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<p>Seems that this is not really a complaint with respect to required courses for one’s major on the Berkeley forum, although getting into popular out of major courses seems to be a problem.</p>
<p>But it has been reported to be a problem at some CSUs, and especially community colleges.</p>
<p>[University</a> of California: StatFinder](<a href=“http://statfinder.ucop.edu%5DUniversity”>http://statfinder.ucop.edu) indicates that from 1991 to 2009, UC 4 year graduation rates have increased greatly (around 70% for Berkeley and UCLA), even though UC has been steadily defunded over the years.</p>
<p>MNMom- You are incorrect. People are very mobile now and many, many kids wind up working and living far from where they went to college. Neither of my kids works in a state in the same part of the country as their college. Some do, of course, especially in the northeast. </p>
<p>I also don’t agree that your school doesn’t matter after your first job. Work experience is certainly important, but that school remains on your resume and the importance of a network can not be ignored.</p>
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<p>Depends on the type of job and industry. Engineer or computer professional? School prestige is not a big deal for an experienced person*. Lawyer? Law school prestige is highly important even after many years of experience.</p>
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<li>However, school prestige in the major plays a factor in attracting non-local recruiters to the career center.</li>
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<p>MomofWildChild–you are incorrect. MOST new grads work within the geographical region of their undergrad for their first job, but your kids are the only representative sample out there I guess…</p>
<p>After their first job, sure people move around more. Sure, networking is nice but most LAC have superior alumni networks so you get the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>^^ re UC Balumnus - Agree. In law, its all about where you went to law school, not undergrad, and how you did there academically. “Double harvard,” to coin a phrase in my office, is nice, but its really law school that counts. You can go to Poduck U, but if you graduated at the top of your class from Stanford/Boalt/Harvard, etc. and were EIC of law review, you are golden out of law school. I am a hiring partner at a major lawfirm. So this I know. I think its pretty much the same for med schools and business schools, but I can’t speak from personal experience there.</p>
<p>And while I hope and believe my kid’s LAC’s have great alum networks, they are not sticking anywhere near their college after graduation (I hope) and I think there is lots of movement.</p>
<p>But if you go into law school or medical school your first job out of undergrad is going to be mixing coffee somewhere to pay for medical school or law school…where you went to undergrad for that doesn’t matter.</p>
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<p>That hasn’t been an issue for me in the US…or even abroad. </p>
<p>The people who matter…employers and grad school admissions/faculty will certainly know about them. That was my experience…though this can cut both ways with employers as I did have an interview which went south within 5 minutes when one interviewer decided to focus on whether I fit his preconceived negative stereotypes of Oberlin students/grads(i.e. Outspoken Pinko-Commie radical left activist hippie type) or not. Then again, that was the same moment I wrote him off as an empty-suited idiot. </p>
<p>Moreover, I’ve also found well-educated intellectuals…especially those who spent time/are deeply familiar with the US also know and respect LACs. This was a reason why in the late '90s…I was actually accorded far more respect than I deserved by many well-educated folks in China. </p>
<p>Then again, it also helps that one of the most famous Chinese historical/political figures of the 20th century was a graduate of my college…and enjoyed it enough to be a generous benefactor.</p>
<p>I guess it depends how you define general region and what sort of college it is. I agree that most of the students at the schools you want to shove down everyone’s throat DO stay in Minnesota. Wouldn’t want to waste all those heavy coats!</p>
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<p>I’ll make sure I tell my daughter how fortunate she will be not slinging coffee and instead working in a research lab before starting med school this fall. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Jack of all subjects and master of none?</p>