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<p>Shoot, HSMCCP. Thanks for the helpful reminder! Everyone else evidently got so wrapped up in the exchange of ideas that they forgot this chestnut.</p>
<p>In touring a number of Midwest LACs w/DS, I was relieved by the absence of designer handbags and other “rich girl” accouterments. Same re: absence of BMWs, and other worthy designators of perceived social status and wealth. The kids looked healthy, focussed, and engaged. Can go to Northwestern, however, and think the girls all shop Saks’ handbag department; yes they’re smart, but there’s this sense of constant competition - academically and socially. Northwestern’s 2012 Princeton Review stats for Quality of Life - 73, Professors Interesting - 75, Professors Accessible -76, are pretty mediocre, while sleeper Gustavus Adolphus College (near-unknown MN LAC) has 97-99-99 scores. Surely Princeton Review is a reasonably accurate assessment of its subject matter.</p>
<p>If someone wants an academically strong but conservative LAC, well there’s Wheaton (Ill) and Hillsdale (Mi) which both receive significant academic acclaim while remaining bastions of conservatism. Not all LACs are celebrated LGBT strongholds.</p>
<p>My kids have very well thought out likes and dislikes about what they want for their college choices. High on that list is being in a smaller town–small to them is 30,000 or less. They haven’t ruled out towns larger than that because they have found a couple schools in large towns that have small campuses that feel small. They have NO interest in going to a huge, flagship school, none. They have spent time on the U of MN campus and it is not for them.</p>
<p>Other things they have considered are areas of study, study abroad programs, and for DD a DI or DII program in her sport, preferably DI. They also know that their end choice is going to come down to who gives them the best package. We wouldn’t have asked about Truman if it didn’t meet most of their wants.</p>
<p>higgins2013 Gustavus is a great school for those looking for one of those obscure jewels, in fact, most of the MN LAC are great schools. The culture here strongly supports that type of school and most of the top kids from the area attend these schools. They also have strong alumni networks around the country which is a bonus for jobs, etc.</p>
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<p>A year ago, my DD’s first choice was UI-Chicago and her second choice was UIUC, both because they were great big schools and the former because it was in Chicago.</p>
<p>After visiting a variety of schools this summer, she decided that she’d be much more comfortable at a LAC. She applied to UIUC, but mostly because almost everybody else from her school applies there, and didn’t even apply to UIC. Her current two first choices are schools of 6,000 and 3,000 kids, and we’re waiting to hear from places as small as 1,800 or so.</p>
<p>We have a visit scheduled in a few weeks for a campus with 10,000 kids. Some friends recommend we check it out and DH and I were driving through the area a while back and stopped. I hadn’t done much research on the school and was shocked to find that it had that many kids (just saw that today as a matter of fact). The campus feels about half that size–which also concerns me as often that means there are a lot of commuters. Housing stats state otherwise so we will see. We have tried to get DS to look at UW-Madison but nope.</p>
<p>higgins:</p>
<p>It is interesting what you said about Northwestern. In the 80’s, when I attended, NU was not like you described at all. But some friends just got back from a whirlwind tour of schools in the midwest, their daughter described NU exactly how you described. Her grandparents were heartbroken as they are all NU grads when she told them that she will not be applying there. I think she will end up at Chicago instead.</p>
<p>My DD would so NOT fit into that “designer” lifestyle. She is just too down to earth to care about all of that stuff. It isn’t the culture at her high school either.</p>
<p>Agree it is all about fit. There is no right or wrong. I went to a top public university, had the time of my life and got a very good education. My D chose a large (by LAC standards) LAC where she is completely thriving (a junior and no, she is not bored). And while I love my alma mater, I must admit she is actually getting a better education than I did – she has no where to hide in her tiny classes whereas I did have 500 person lectures, distracted TAs, and never knew a professor personally … but I got to go to “the big game” and one of my profs did win a nobel (although I never met him outside of the lecture). There are pluses and minuses to both, but I have come to believe that on the plus side for the LACs is fact that the consistantly intimate classes provide a really amazing intellectual experience.</p>
<p>we looked at a few…just seemed too small. So much more to do at a larger school IMO</p>
<p>Plug for Minn. LACs with one caveate . . .
We did a Minnesota tour last winter. I don’t know how the schools feel to someone from Minnesota, but to D they each had their own quirks. I’ve said this before on another thread but it was a 3 bears thing for D where Carleton felt too quirky, too East Coast/Cali and not midwester enough. Gustavus felt too provincial - everyone was very nice and seemed happy, but it felt too much like high school to her (letter jackets and all). St. Olaf was the “just right”. Mac was too urban and the Catholic schools (Scholastica etc.) too out of the way and just didn’t attract her. Everyone has their metrics. Some other kid (a cousin of hers included) could go to the same set of schools and come away with a completely different assesment. Of course it has to offer the right education at what your family feels is the right price, but among schools which pencil out to be similar on paper there can be deal breaking difference for a kid which are legitimate. As long as academics and financials work - let them have their feelings.</p>
<p>^^ oops end of work day up since 4am can’t spell!! 
give a girl a break</p>
<p>I would also note that as far as flagship state universities, UMinn is one of the more uninspiring campuses. I was pretty impressed with it one June visit and much less so at other times of the year. It just doesn’t seem at all cohesive and I can understand why someone would want to look elsewhere. </p>
<p>It is also a fact that many students from other parts of the country are simply not interested in Minnesota. There have been a number of discussions on CC about how hard it is to sell the “fly over” states, even though there are so many excellent schools of ALL sizes. Minnesota takes it to another level even over Ohio/Ill/Indiana with the more extreme weather. I have spent a LOT of time in MN and almost accepted a job up there. I’ve even run 3 marathons in the state.</p>
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<p>A handbag and a car are just that - ways to carry personal belongings and ways to get from place A to place B. Is there something inherently immoral or wrong with a nice handbag or nice car? What does it say about a young woman who carries a nice handbag? I think it says nothing other than her handbag is nice. It says nothing one way or the other about her intelligence, drive, altruism, kindness, dedication to her studies, or whatever else you want to focus on.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl–it’s the culture that surrounds those things–the expectation that you will have those if you want to fit in and the attitude of those that NEED those things to feel good about themselves.</p>
<p>But who says that if Mary happens to carry a designer handbag, that she expects everyone around her too to carry one to fit in, that she looks for that criteria first and foremost in her friends, and that she needs it to feel good about herself? That’s an AWFUL lot of projection when all Mary’s doing is just walking down the street with her handbag.</p>
<p>I think there is a lot of projection and reverse snobbery implicit in this kind of discussion. Things are just things (in this case, handbags). They don’t have inherent good or bad moral values attached to them. If the onlooker attaches a moral value to it, that may or may not be what the carrier / user thought. The carrier / user may have just liked the handbag aesthetically and that was that. Sorry, this sounds just like the proverbial housewife “she’s flaunting her big diamond ring” directed towards someone who is just wearing a diamond ring. Wearing =/= flaunting, and wearing =/= values that highly.</p>
<p>As to the reverse snobbery…Most of the people I hang around with just are not that in to things. It isn’t that the doctors next door couldn’t drive the most expensive cars, they just don’t want to. I have always felt as though companies should pay for their own advertising, so I have never liked to wear or carry anything with the label on the outside. When DH and I were dating in the early 80s, he asked if I had any jeans with the designer label on the pocket. I said, “Yes, Lee.” I don’t want everyone I pass on the street to know exactly what I paid for something because it is the latest trend. I don’t really look at it as being snobbish, but it is just not within my friends’ or my interests. </p>
<p>I would also add that I am from the Midwest and I think that I the Midwest, showing off wealth is not as common. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>I agree MD Mom–flaunting just isn’t acceptable here. In fact, usually you find those that are “flaunting wealth” really don’t have much money to begin with and are just trying to look like they do.</p>
<p>Pizza–it ins’t that Mary is carrying the bag, it’s that Mary, Suzi, Buffy, Janie, Annie, Miffy, Katie, Aly, …all do and won’t talk to Amy that doesn’t.</p>
<p>On designer clothing labels…</p>
<p>I am a bit of a clothes hound, unusual for a man. I like well made, nice fitting suits and dress shirts. 99% of the public has never heard of the brands that I buy because they are not designer labels. Very rarely does the quality of designer label clothes match the price charged, even at huge discounts.</p>
<p>Why would I buy, say a D&G suit when I could get a Cucinelli suit for a cheaper price but 10 times the quality?</p>
<p>Same thing holds true for women’s clothes and accessories. These women are not walking around campus with D&G handbags because they are nice and of good quality. They are carrying them because of the ‘prestige’. I’ll guarantee you that I could find better quality handbags for half the price as could these young women.</p>
<p>Designer clothing labels prey upon weak minded consumers.</p>