<p>Schools I am familiar with have LARGE portion of the funding for their merit scholarships–mainly the ones where gpa+act/sat= $$$$ get the funding for those scholarships from alumna/i donations, at least around here. Need based aid comes from other sources and private endowments at the schools in the form of grants and scholarships, usually by names similar to that on your athletic center or library.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Right. And what *I’m asking is – in the context of a typical college visit - you watch kids in the library, at the coffee shop, walking to classes, in the student center, etc. – how do you ascertain whether they have “attitude” linked to possessions - or whether they just simply have those possessions because that’s their personal preference, taste and budget? I mean, I don’t think it’s typical that you stand behind a student at the campus coffee shop who reaches into her designer handbag and proclaims, “Anyone who doesn’t have this kind of handbag is too tacky for words.” Chances are she reaches in and grabs her money just like everyone else. So, how is it ascertained that students “have an attitude” through the observation of what they wear? </p>
<p>You know, plenty of rich trust-fund old-school preppies dress down. There’s a kind of status in that, too.</p>
<p>Being overly intimidated by other people’s “status displays” (so to speak) is something I never, ever want my children to have. It seems to me that the proper attitude to cultivate toward someone else’s “status displays” is indifference, not intimidation. Oh, that’s nice you have a Gucci bag, well, whatever, enjoy. Not - OMG, your Gucci bag intimidates me so much I’m going to pre-judge that you must be a snob that I don’t want to know.</p>
<p>I don’t think ANYONE is intimidated by a Gucci bag, not in the slightest, in fact, it is just the opposite, almost feeling sorry that they need those things to prove their are “worth” something…and not worth in the financial sense. I also, again, go back to the attitude, which is just down right unpleasant, that goes along with girls that are that insecure that they need an outward display of their personal worth through material items.</p>
<p>Good grief, why are you assuming that someone wears those things to “prove they are worth something”? That’s you projecting again. Can’t they just prefer that particular style / look? And “not worth it” in the financial sense is in the eye of the spender, not the onlooker. </p>
<p>I like nice handbags and over the years, I’ve gotten a Chanel, a Prada, an LV, 2 Coach and some other designers. And? So what? I’m fully aware that what handbag someone owns is meaningless in the broader scheme of things. All it is is a handbag. If you wish to ascribe meaning to it or assume that I value it beyond its purpose to me as a handbag, that’s your hang-up, not mine. Or if you wish to assume I’m wearing it to “prove I’m worth something” - go right ahead; you couldn’t be more mistaken.</p>
<p>To me, one of the benefits of an LAC, which is less readily available in the large State U, is the fact that students do come in regular contact with faculty and can be part of a small community of scholars engaged in learning/research. LACs can often have a great academic environment that excites some students and helps them find a passion or direction. Often, the large State U doesn’t provide that opportunity except, perhaps, in Honors programs. I also realize that all LACs aren’t created equal and that some may not provide strong academic environments. </p>
<p>One aspect of an LAC education that wasn’t really discussed was the community. My D had a very strong sense of being part of her college community and participating in the traditions of that community. She has a bond with a group of friends and with the college that was part of her experience. </p>
<p>I can compare that to my experience at a large state U (Michigan). I went through four years as one of hundreds of kids in my major. I remember meeting with my advisor and he asked me how I managed to take so many courses in my major??? Other than my small group of friends, I never really felt like I was part of a community. The only thing that brought people together IMO was protesting the Vietnam War (for one group of students) and football and Greek life (another group of students). I went to Michigan in the early 70s.</p>
<p>I do agree that the full-time four-year college experience is largely available to upper-middle class and middle class students. Working class kids are much more likely to end up in community college or going the vocational training route. I grew up in a working class community as did my husband and we ended up going a different route than most of our peers. My H went into the military when he graduated and was able to use the GI Bill to pay for his undergraduate schooling when he left the military and received fellowships for his graduate work. My folks were immigrants who bought into the idea that education was a way to move up the socio-economic ladder so they insisted I go to the large state U (so I could become a teacher) rather than the local community colleges my friends were attending.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Certainly there are some competitive merit scholarships funded through endowments that are hard to get and limited to a small percentage of the student body (i.e. the Buntrock at St. Olaf or the Marquis at Lafayette). But that’s not the same thing as colleges which routinely take off 20-30% of the rack rate for any mildly above-average student who bothers to apply and fill out the FAFSA/CSS. There are a lot of schools like that out there. And no, they’re not very good.</p>
<p>Well, I guess we need to define who is getting the money–like I said earlier in a school with stats were a large portion of their students getting that aid have 3.7 uw/30+ ACT, they are good schools. If you get that aid for having a heartbeat, yes, you are correct. I think a lot of the issue is that in some states the LAC are far superior to the state schools and other states the state schools are better than the LAC. Your opinion on which is better is going to depend on which is the case where you live.</p>
<p>
Agreed. Some honors programs are good, but many are little more than marketing schemes and offer little practical benefit. My sister turned down honors at our flagship public for our in-state public LAC and has not regretted it in the slightest. The ability to “make a large school small” is often highly overstated, in my opinion.</p>
<p>We came across one honor’s program so far, at a LAC though, that would be beneficial for DS because they were able to pretty much skip out of some of the required gen ed’s–which would have freed up his schedule enough to get 3 majors-one being Spanish and that would have been contingent on him testing out of 2 years of college Spanish-which he SHOULD be able to do given his high school classes, but not a given. He’s not very interested in that particular school any more though.</p>
<p>most people wear or have the expensive name brand simply because they can…it’s really that simple. If someone is intimidated or prejudges, that just shows their own character flaws.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It depends on one’s major also. With a popular major like biology, the student is likely to find huge classes as a freshman and sophomore, and still big classes as a junior and senior. But with a less popular major like math, the student may have mostly small classes in his/her major, especially if honors courses are available and the student chooses them (e.g., at the freshman or sophomore level, honors multivariable calculus with 25 students versus regular multivariable calculus with 300 to 400 students).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Depends on the environmental/cultural context of a given situation as there is such a thing as overdressing for a given occasion/place. </p>
<p>For instance, wearing corporate formal clothing everyday/most of the time to class at Columbia U, Baruch, or NYU(especially STERN) would be fine for the most part and would actually impress many classmates. </p>
<p>Doing the same at a school like Oberlin would cause one to be disdained and sometimes openly mocked as “too bourgeois” and even a “craven corporate tool beholden to materialistic consumption.” </p>
<p>Only exception to this is if you happen to be a conservatory student. Then again, we college kids have special jokes/terms of mockery just for them…and the con students are more than happy to return the favor…though this tends to be much more friendlier than the above.</p>
<p>
That depends entirely on the university and program in question. Take classics at UCLA, for example. It’s far from a popular major, and yet only two courses this quarter are small (a freshman seminar and a capstone seminar). The others have at least 40 students, and several have 100+. The courses in Greek and Latin are smaller but still larger than one would find at a LAC.</p>
<p>Alternately, consider art history, which accounts for a mere 1.5% of all majors. Only ~30% of the 20 or so courses offered this quarter (excluding tutorials/ind. studies) have fewer than 40 students. Sample class sizes include 51, 55, 77, 147, 165, etc. students. Compare that to a LAC like Grinnell, which caps virtually every class at 30 students, and the difference is pretty glaring.</p>
<p>In any case, differences go far beyond the simple issue of class sizes. A small community feel is very difficult to replicate. A couple years ago, the trustees of Davidson paid for the lodgings, bus fare, and tickets for all Davidson students who wanted to see the NCAA tournament. What larger college would or could do such a thing? (Certainly not my alma mater.) </p>
<p>The difference between my college graduation, where all ~4500 of the graduating undergrads and grads packed into a football stadium for an impersonal graduation before drifting our separate ways, and that of my boyfriend’s graduation, where all of the ~300 graduating students got to walk across the stage individually, could not have been more different and perfectly highlights the differences between the two colleges. (You are also stunned by the difference when you realize that [one</a> of the courses at Cornell](<a href=“http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2077/1811968545_90c242c700_z.jpg]one”>http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2077/1811968545_90c242c700_z.jpg) enrolls more students than some LACs have in their entire student bodies.)</p>
![http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2077/1811968545_90c242c700_z.jpg]one](http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2077/1811968545_90c242c700_z.jpg%5Done){kind=link}
<p>Anyone who has experienced both a small and large college can speak to the differences in atmosphere, red tape, ease of use of facilities, availability of study carrels in the library, etc. For example, gyms can be similarly sized at different universities, but the one at the larger college may have about three or four times as many students trying to use it – one can easily imagine how well that turns out.</p>
<p>Yeah, but Psych 101 was fun.</p>
<p>I think we DO know what that girl with the fancy bag is thinking. Not all the time, not every girl, but enough to draw conclusions about the friendliness or hostility of a particular environment. Especially if the evidence is preponderous. </p>
<p>This is from Jane Smiley’s novel “Moo”, which is a great, fun read taking place at a fictional Iowa University (big one, not LAC) and would make a wonderful read as you spend hours touring around looking for the perfect place.</p>
<p>To set the scene, Dr. Garcia has just come out of a meeting discussing the tenure possibilities of Tim. Will his face give it away? Hmmmmm, faces usually do…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You know what the girl with the fancy bag is thinking merely on account of observing the bag? I call b.s. You can intuit other things based on her interactions with others and overall demeanor, but if the only observation is that she’s walking down the street with a designer bag, the bag doesn’t mean anything. </p>
<p>I can’t believe these are adults reacting this way, to be honest. You people seriously think a handbag says anything about you other than this is your aesthetic choice?</p>
<p>The bag is never alone, not if it’s being carried by the girl, and yes, so much can be intuited by its being carried, and how it’s being carried, and all the other social signals, i.e. aesthetic choices, that are evident and being broadcast by the carrier, or is b.s. being called on vast swaths of the social sciences? Bags are easy to pick on because they vary in price in a way that is all out of proportion to their functionality and quality and also because some of them are determined to shout out their provenance in large, easily recognized initials. </p>
<p>But what’s relevant is post #62’s mention of the “absence of BMWs, and other worthy designators of perceived social status and wealth” is just one part of the puzzle of “fit” and whether or not we find it while visiting any particular school. If the visiting student gets a bad vibe from a college environment, whether it’s from too many designer bags and other symbols being overwhelming, or maybe too many skateboards and hacky sacks, it shouldn’t be discounted as some misguided evidence of snobbery, reverse or otherwise.</p>
<p>Oh brother.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>HOW it’s being carried? How does one carry a designer handbag differently from how one carries a regular handbag?</p>
<p>Is the criteria here “any handbag that I, myself, could afford is reasonable and any handbag that is out of my particular price range is the province of snobs”? I mean, you all clearly have a range in mind. What’s the $ figure for a handbag for a college student at which she crosses the line from appropriate into snobby? $50? $100? $200? $500?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think you don’t know a lot about designer handbags, then. A lot of higher quality handbags don’t have easily recognizable logos and their quality is known quietly only to the wearer. Same could be said for things like cashmere sweaters. </p>
<p>What about high-performance outerwear in cold climates? Or very expensive running shoes? What does that say about a person?</p>