<p>Hi, lilmom, </p>
<p>I see you just joined CC this month, so I’ll post a link to a previous thread </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/503623-struggle-challenge-good-work-carol-dweck.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/503623-struggle-challenge-good-work-carol-dweck.html</a> </p>
<p>that I think was very helpful.</p>
<p>tokenadult–I read the article several months ago–it’s changed my parenting! I stopped praising intelligence and other innate, unchangeable qualities and started focusing on effort (& quoted that article to numerous people).</p>
<p>Then I read a great book & I pretty much stopped ‘praising’ altogether & started making ‘substantive observations’ etc. [Amazon.com:</a> Punished By Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A’s, Praise, and Other Bribes: Alfie Kohn: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Punished-Rewards-Trouble-Incentive-Praise/dp/0618001816/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211852300&sr=8-2]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Punished-Rewards-Trouble-Incentive-Praise/dp/0618001816/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211852300&sr=8-2)</p>
<p>Jolynne you’d probably like [Amazon.com:</a> How To Talk So Kids Can Learn: Adele Faber, Elaine Mazlish: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Can-Learn/dp/0684824728]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Can-Learn/dp/0684824728) as well.</p>
<p>mathmom–I’ve read F&M’s books (including “How to Talk so Your Teen will Listen”). They are really excellent. I need to apply them more…but their ideas are ‘in my head’ every day.</p>
<p>Alfie Kohn??? His ideas on equality in the classroom are so offensive to me, I shudder when I think about them. One of our school district’s (former) administrators quoted him to me … that was when I knew I had to find another school for my D. </p>
<p>As far as motivating your S, OP - I know that my S does much better when it’s someone else’s idea (as opposed to mine or his dad’s). For example, he was deciding on courses for junior year. I suggested that he take Honors Physics. He said that “no one” takes 2 science classes at once (he is also taking AP Bio). I told him that his sister & her friends all did. He said no & I told him to talk to his teachers. Next thing I knew, he wanted me to sign off on his course requests & I saw both science classes on his form. I didn’t say a word. His teachers made sure he signed up for what he should have signed up for. If you would like to motivate your S, maybe you can enlist the help of people your S might listen to. It doesn’t always work, of course — my S won’t do any school EC’s. He is aware of how that might impact him for college admissions, but he is willing to take a chance. Then again, he DID say he will probably run track next spring — so maybe he IS figuring it out on his own.</p>
<p>kelsmom–that’s interesting…any particular book/article of his that you read & didn’t care for? I know he’s not 100% on everything (e.g. discounts innate gender differences…but I know that was written before he had kids, lol).</p>
<p>I really liked his ‘get off the praise train’ ideas (although I didn’t agree w/all his points). I threw away my ‘point chart’ w/my daughter & things have improved re: her motivation to do stuff 100%…</p>
<p>Check out this article: [Only</a> for MY Kid](<a href=“http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/ofmk.htm]Only”>http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/ofmk.htm).</p>
<p>I read thru it quickly…so, he’s against (among other things) homogenous classrooms & tracking. I see the fact that all students should have access to creative, enrichment programs, but don’t at all agree w/the heterogeneous classroom idea (I’ve written several letters to my school district opposing this ‘cutting edge’ idea that’s been propogated by various principals in our area).</p>
<p>Agree w/you there…! </p>
<p>Still like his ‘take the focus of extrinsic rewards in education’ idea though. That shift has really worked for us, esp. w/6 year old!</p>
<p>I concede that he may have some ideas of value. Unfortunately, the context in which I was introduced to his ideas was not pleasant … so I should probably have <em>bitten my tongue</em> (or the equivalent). Sorry to have gotten off topic! I just had a flashback to the black hole that was my D’s middle school years & freaked out. :)</p>
<p>No problem! When my son’s middle school principal told me —after I called to thank her for offering 9th grade algebra II to 7th graders—that such differentiated classrooms were “on the way out and no longer on the educational cutting edge” I had exactly the same reaction! Led to a 45 minute debate w/her!!</p>
<p>My math battles are legendary in our district! :)</p>
<p>I have found that enlisting the help of others has been really helpful. His counselor has done well advising him as have some of his teachers. He also has some friends who are good influences. So, he receives all the info he needs but most of the time he won’t initiate unless he’s asked to do so.<br>
I finally realized that my husband and I had been focusing on his intelligence/talent and not his effort. A previous poster mentioned that being intelligent may have kept him from learning the value of hard work. I heartily agree. Our D is 2 years younger and works twice as hard in school and is very successful. Our S just seems to require more step by step guidance than our D. I wish I had figured that out sooner.</p>
<p>Lilmom,</p>
<p>Because your son is bright, he probably suffers from the same thing that my son has. Fear of failure. He might want to join the newspaper, but he won’t because he worries that while he has the talent, he may worry that he won’t be as good as the other students. My son, who does not appear to be shy but is, can be like this. Sometimes, I have had to put him in uncomfortable positions, and yes, we had huge fights, but in the end, he is glad that I put him there.</p>
<p>One particular club allowed him to build a tight friendship with a young lady who is a couple of years old and offers him great insight to many things. My son originally was not going to take a job locally at a fast food place, but I told him he needed insurance money – I wasn’t going to pick up the entire tab. At least he was not thrilled with working. Now, he enjoys the money – paid for prom himself and even has taken an interest in investing that money in CDs (yes, the economy is not great but at least he saves.)</p>
<p>Encourage your son to “just try it” when it comes to the newspaper. If school has not ended where you are, have him observe a few classes. Maybe the teacher will ask his opinion on some things – kids love that when they can be the boss. My son was going to do very little in HS – now, it’s as if he runs the place. He went being no one to sharing the student council presidency in one year. He will be president of another club next year. </p>
<p>Would I let my son back out if he does not like something? Of course. But we still need to encourage our kids to try new things. Some work. Some don’t. But we never know until they try.</p>
<p>Conversation with S last night.</p>
<p>Me: Ive been reading how important it is to focus on your efforts rather than intelligence. See, thats exactly why I get frustrated sometimes when I think you are not putting any effort in your school work.</p>
<p>S: why do you want to focus on me doing busy work?</p>
<p>Me: 
</p>
<p>Hi, DreamMom, </p>
<p>Your son asks a good follow-up question. It is still important to see if the school curriculum delivers homework that builds skill and knowledge, or just homework that consumes time and allows the teacher to check off items on a meaningless checklist.</p>
<p>
Bessie, could you elaborate on this? I am currently considering hiring a college counselor to help with ds’s college application process. </p>
<p>If anyone else has any experience with college counselors (private), please share. Thanks!</p>
<p>Update: My S is now on the newspaper staff for next fall. He has the choice to move on to something else if he doesn’t care for it but I’m glad that he’s going to try it. There’s nothing more thrilling than the power of the pen (or keyboard in today’s world.) You can lead a horse to water and sometimes you need to make him take a sip..and I keep reminding myself that with my DS, baby steps…Thanks for the wonderful insights, I’m still taking it all in…</p>
<p>It’s tough with some of these kids who are just so unaware. YOu don’t want to be too pushy, but some of it is part of the job description. It’s always a balancing act. My freshman son put in an app for a position at the school for next year and got it. Part of building his resume, he told me. Will he enjoy the work? I think he will. If I had not bugged him about getting some stuff to fill in those blanks of his college app, would he have bothered? I don’t know. But I know a number of good kids who just were not aware enough to resume build and were actually told when applying to college, that they were deficient. Yes they were. BUt so would have a number more, had their parents not intervened. So, we do make them aware.</p>
<p>I was trying to remember how I came to CC so I looked back at my very first thread. My son was a sophomore then and finding it difficult to “try something new”. I was finding it hard to find support from my peers in the real world and turned to my cyber pals for suggestions. Now, I often myself running to the computer to announce important news about my kids instead to running to my friends! Scary!</p>
<p>Anyway, my son is doing well in his senior year. He completed his last season with the marching band and has moved on to other musical groups including drumline and drum corp. He really found his niche in band. In his college essay, he wrote about how music brought together a motley crew of kids and turned them into a winning band. Music will always be a part of his life and we’re happy he found it. While he doesn’t intend to major in it, he says if he’s admitted into a school with a band, he will join because it’ll help him meet people. </p>
<p>As for the newspaper staff, he continues to write as well as serve as photographer. It didn’t spark the “writer” in him enough to make him want to pursue it in college, but his skills have garnered him some positive attention. He proofread some his friends college essays and tutored younger English students. I told him he would hopefully be able to help his younger sibling with his essay next year. He wants to write an article on the kids going to college in his school because “they give too much attention to the athletes who get full-rides.” Wow, he has an opinion now! :)</p>
<p>He was so unsure about himself, what would’ve happened if he hadn’t joined band or the newspaper staff? Who knows. What worked for us is a simple contract - “try it for ____ long and if you don’t like it, move on to something else.” </p>
<p>My son isn’t the math and science, AP, left brain whiz. He loves music and art! My husband and I had to learn how to support a creative child because we are so left brained ourselves. </p>
<p>Next task is the college choice. It’ll be interesting to see where he chooses to go! What a journey!</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the update, lilmom. Loved reading the thread and the positive outcome.</p>