Follow up about IB classes. Our large public HS has many IB class options and zero APs. Most of the SL classes are two year classes, not one (I hear that’s unusual). Many times juniors take an IB class that is unspecified and then choose either HL2 or SL2 for senior year (essentially pushing off the choice).
DD24 is tentatively signed up for 5 IB classes for junior year. Would colleges prefer she take fewer IB classes but hit HL in more or more IB classes but at the SL level.
The diploma is not the right level of rigor for her - she’s looking for a step down. Humanities kid if it matters.
The advice to choose all AP or IB if possible seems to run somewhat counter to our advice to our junior to only take APs of interest. Is my impression correct there?
I think our reasoning is sound (to allow her to more deeply explore her interests in school and outside). But it would be helpful to better understand how the result runs counter to the expectations of top-tier institutions.
I wouldn’t say that’s true, and I definitely wouldn’t use the word “heavily discounted” either. What’s always going to be important is the level of impact a person is making within their activities. The activities mentioned, whether by an Asian student or not, are all very common; and that’s really the bigger issue. In order for them to have more sway in the process, they need to be “bigger” than just playing the piano or shadowing a Dr. They have to grow to a place where they are objectively impressive; regardless of the applicant’s race or ethnicity.
What do you mean by “admissions success”? Nearly all of the high-performing high schools in NJ are in the northern (and more populous) half of the state. So it’s not surprising that the vast majority of NJ Princeton students would be from the north.
One follow-up.
Let’s take shadowing a doctor - most Asian Americans tend to reach out among their known persons and usually, an Asian American doctor will give them the first and sometimes their only break.
I have heard that a recommendation letter from Dr. Patel for an Indian American kid will be “heavily discounted” but the same may not hold true for other students shadowing doctors from their own ethnicity or religion.
Frankly, struggling with how to overcome AO biases.
Thank you for the follow-up question! I’m not sure I have the complete context, but the advice to have a student explore their interests inside and outside of the classroom still holds for those students in the IB program as well. Within IB, there is still a choice between HL/SL and specific courses to take, so the student has the ability to closely match with subjects that connect to their larger academic goals. I don’t see your advice as being exclusive only to the AP curriculum, I think it can apply to both (deeply exploring interests inside and outside of the classroom). I’m just saying that at most institutions, if IB is available, typically, the strongest students go in that direction. And if they don’t, they are taking as many APs as allowed. Every school is different, but the mix/matching typically doesn’t impress as much as choosing one direction or the other.
As the previous answer stated, it’s less about what is the ethnic background of the student shadowing a doctor, and more about what the student does with this experience. Shadowing a doctor is common enough, but perhaps the student will then realize that they enjoy a certain type of medicine or interaction with patients and starts volunteering as a translator in their particular community, for example. Ultimately, the experience cannot stop at “shadow doctor” or “play piano” or “practice dance”. The experience must continue from the “expertise” to “sharing your expertise with others” and showing impact through the sharing of whatever experience the student has gone through.
On a separate note, AOs are regularly trained on identifying and understanding their own biases and the biases of others.
This sounds like a very school-specific issue that should be discussed with the school counselor. However, generally, the breakdown seen in IB diploma students is 3HL and 3SL courses.
That said, we can think of the question here as whether it’s better for the student to take more or fewer advanced courses — AOs looks for a curriculum that includes the most rigor possible/appropriate for the context of the school. Effectively, more As (or in case of IB grading, 7s and 6s) in higher-rigor courses are viewed more favorably than more As in regular- or lower-rigor courses.
The point about the level or rigor needing to be lower is something that the student needs to consider with her teachers and school counselor about what level is appropriate for her.
Honestly, I think it’s absolutely and completely nuts that teenagers “cannot stop at ‘shadow doctor’ or ‘play piano’ or ‘practice dance’.” I mean how is this college process even remotely ok? Why can’t smart teens just invest in their studies and have hobbies they enjoy and are excited about? why do they have to accomplish more than most adults do? I joined math and physics club and played guitar - and I did just great at MIT. Without groundbreaking research, or fake internships, or forced community service. I am sorry but all of this is just ludicrous.
This comment is spot on in terms of the insanity around students pursuing things that are not genuine to their area of interest because “it will look good on their resume.” Students should not pursue things that are “fake” or “forced,” because AOs can tell the difference, but more importantly, the student will not enjoy the process.
The original question was how to stand out when pursuing more commonly seen activities, and the answer is to continue pursuing the interest beyond said common activity if it is genuine for the student.
It’s more about showing a progression from 1) identifying an interest to 2) exploring the interest to 3) showing expertise in the interest and 4) making an impact with said interest. Most students only get to 2 or potentially 3, 4 being the rarest. And that is more than OK. AOs don’t expect students to publish original research or fill-in-the-blank-thing, but it’s great to see how a student take initiative within an area of interest to genuinely explore it and find ways to impact their community (or even one person) while doing it. It all also depends entirely on access to resources and the context from which a student is coming, and these are all things that AOs are considering while reading applications from their particular school groups / regions.
At the end of the day, it’s not just about the activities a student does. The application process is a holistic reading process, which includes curriculum rigor and grades, testing, recommendation letters, and writing viewed in the context of the student’s high school, region, and prospective major.
Hopefully, this helps give more context, and thanks for sharing this perspective.
@compmom Would you be willing to PM me as well? I had posted something similar re: only pursuing APs in courses of interest because we believe in mastery of content. Thank you in advance!
I wrote a long PM but your profile is hidden @pathandpurpose. No great wisdom to share and I didn’t want to post too much on an AMA site.
AP’s are often seen as surveys and may lack the depth you are seeking. I think there are good reasons to take fewer: to avoid stress, and to leave time for activities outside of school.
Ironically, for my kids, it was the activities outside of school that seemed to appeal to colleges, and with too many AP’s those may not have been possible.
imashela love your comment! My sister back in the early 90’s was accepted to Cornell and Princeton as a well-rounded, strong student. She didn’t begin a company or went to some foreign country to volunteer, etc. There is no way based on her stats and EC’s that she would be admitted to either University in this current college admittance climate. She ended up at UNC-Chapel Hill which she loved. Not even sure if she would be admitted due to being out of state regarding admissions. Honestly, it is disheartening to constantly read about all these EC’s students are doing. Is it because they love it or just looks good? I agree, completely nuts! Glad my kids were just regular kids doing some EC’s they enjoy, solid (not amazing) SAT and GPA.
How powerful is the recruited athlete hook in your experience?
I have read extensively about the topic. Our school’s GC, a former AO from one of the top schools, said that there is a reason why there is a different category for admissions. The GC said that my student is in a special group that AOs take very seriously if supported by the coach.
I would like to believe conventional wisdom, but I am a “trust, but verify” from multiple sources person.
With that said, my student has been targeted as a “top recruit” by many schools. In your experience, how truthful are these statements from coaches? How seriously do the AOs take these supported recruits if they meet the academic bar?
If the AOs issues a likely letter or positive pre-read, how seriously should I take these? There has been a recent situation at a NESCAC school which deferred 25 ED1 recruited athletes which troubles me about this process.
Thank you! I am planning to take AP Physics 1, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP Enviro, AP Stats, Regular economics, and a TA period. Those are mostly the hardest courses available to me — with the exception that I could take Calc BC instead of Stats, and AP HUG instead of TA. But BC really doesn’t interest me and neither does HUG. I hope that will look okay to Admissions officers.
Another question — how do colleges typically view students who found their academic interest “late” in high school? For example, only last summer I got an internship in environmental science that really made me interested in the subject, and I’ve applied for a few summer programs involving it, but I haven’t really had a chance to do much else with it — other than doing some spare time book-reading. Since I apply to college this fall I’m afraid I won’t really have “enough” going on regarding my interest and it could reflect on me negatively.
Second — a lot of students have non-academic interests such as arts and sports. I’m one of those students who are strong in music, with national/international awards. But I don’t intend on majoring in an arts subject. I guess my question here would be if that would make admissions officers question why I’m choosing to major in science instead of music? (A lot of my EC’s revolve around using music/other arts to better my community. But I see it as more of a hobby and less of a career choice) And how much does the submission of a strong arts portfolio impact admissions?
How much does National Honor Society matter in admissions for top colleges? We have a NHS, but I missed the application deadline. application opening was not even announced. i dont think I would have had time for it anyway but I am just hoping that it will not be a potential red flag on the college application.
