"Amazing" Extracurriculars?

<p>Few Questions about law school admissions:
1. What kind of GPA and LSAT scores are required for a Law/Business school admission.
2. Does 3.8 and above GPA at Harvard comes as competitive or it is way too low?
3. Is difficulty of course load a criterion for admission? Math/science GPA tends to be lower than government major at Harvard.
4. If someone holds a high ranking position at “Crimson” or “Institute of Politics” does that qualify as a good EC?</p>

<p>You could get a 180 on the LSAT six times and it still wouldn't be good enough for business school.</p>

<p>To answer your questions in the order they were presented,
1. For law school you need anywhere from a 3.5-4.0 to be considered for admission at the top schools. At Harvard, a 3.8 would be within the 25-75th percentile range. It would be high enough to qualify you for admission; it would not guarantee your admission. For law schools in the T14 your LSAT needs to be at least 165 (for most applicants that don't have stellar EC's). For business school it is much different. You can get by with relatively lower GMAT scores and a lower gpa. However, you usually need to have excellent work experience for a shot at the best schools. That is quite general and individuals on the MBA/Business School forums can give you the specifics.
3. You do not have to have a difficult, although it will help your chances of admission at the top schools. That is one of the soft factors they look at, and it is somewhat important.
4. Yes, that would be a good EC. If you could be more specific, yet others might be able to give you more information. I hope this helps.</p>

<p>
[quote]
many students go abroad on fellowships such as the Rhodes, Marshall, Gates, Fullbright,etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There are only 32 Rhodes, 40 Marshall, and 100 Gates awarded annually, so I doubt "many" students have masters upon matriculation. There about 6000 Fulbrights each year, but many of the holders are not in degree granting programs.</p>

<p>You may doubt it. If so, ask any student currently attending YHS how many of his/her classmates have master's degrees. I stand by my statement. </p>

<p>Do note that I said "etc." when I listed fellowships. There are other fellowships, less well known to the public and sometimes only open to students who attend particular colleges, which pay for graduate study abroad. These would include the Keasbey and the Henry (which, as far as I know, is only open to Harvard,Yale, and Princeton grads.)</p>

<p>Yale and Stanford Law School classes are small--less than 200 per class. Many students arrive with master's degrees and there are always at least a couple of Ph.D.s.</p>

<p>Granted, Yale is an extreme case, but read this link--I just went searching:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/News_&_Events/HHK_Welcome2007.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/News_&_Events/HHK_Welcome2007.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Look especially at page 2.</p>

<p>jonri, from your link:</p>

<p>
[quote]
189 entering JD students...35 of you have Masters degrees, 14 have held foreign fellowships. 13 of you have earned PhDs...

[/quote]

I'll do the math for you: 19% Masters, 7% Ph.D., 7% foreign fellowships.</p>

<p>Granted this is "an extreme case".</p>

<p>By the way, they award <em>one</em> Henry and <em>three</em> Keasbey a year.</p>

<p>I will not argue whether these numbers mean "many" or not. The numbers (which are impressive, given the total pool) would lead some of us to believe that prestigious fellowships or masters degrees are the exception among the matriculants, at least at Yale.</p>

<p>That included the 25 LLMs, 1 MSL, and 12 JSDs.</p>

<p>It's a bit too late to say you "Will not argue whether these numbers mean 'many' or not." You already did that in post 24. There's no need to "do the math" for me because I didn't claim that the majority or any certain percentage of the class had master's degrees. You are erecting a strawman to defeat an argument I didn't make.</p>

<p>People can decide for themselves whether my claim that "many" students arrive with master's degrees is erroneous. We use the English language differently. When a quarter of the class had a master's degree or Ph.D., I don't think advanced degrees "are the exception." </p>

<p>Again, I wasn't trying to list all possible fellowships for studying abroad, but you are in error when you say only one Henry is awarded a year. It's one each at HYP--three all together.</p>

<p>I ask that other readers keep in mind that my original point was that a master's degree will not help ladistar much in the admissions process. Indeed, based on her most recent post, it seems as if the master's may be in a vocational field. If that's the case, it won't help at all.</p>

<p>jonri, </p>

<p>The frequency of graduate degrees among law school applicants has nothing at all to do with whether or not they will help any one applicant. One just can't decide based on such limited information. You may be an admissions insider who has knowledge I don't. If so, please share your bona fides so we can evaluate the credibility of your posts. I'm just a lowly parent with three graduate degrees who reads widely and has followed graduate and professional school admissions for a long time. </p>

<p>Interestingly, I do know that some grad degrees, such as in technical fields, can be a help for law school admissions, other things being equal (just as liberal arts backgrounds can be a help for med school...) What we would rally like to know is whether the percentage of grad degrees is higher or lower in the applicant pool versus the accepted pool versus the matriculant pool. But I've never seen that information.</p>

<p>You are correct, though, that my argument was faulty. Rather than say the number of grad degrees was small because fellowships/scholarships are rare, I should have said that the fellowships/scholarships are rare, so they could not account for the frequency of graduate degrees.</p>

<p>So in summary, we can conclude two things:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>we don't know the impact of graduate degrees on law school admissions. One may help or hinder (and it probably depends on the degree anyway...)</p></li>
<li><p>we can infer that most graduate degrees do not result from fellowships/scholarships because the latter are far rarer than graduate degrees.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>In fairness, jonri's post #19 explicitly says that he doesn't think the degrees are very helpful. There's no need to take such a corrective tone.</p>

<p>Does anyone have knowledge or just an opinion on someone with a B.M. in performance going on to law school? How is a music degree viewed as undergrad major? My son is currently a violin performance major, but we have discussed the potential for (some day) a consideration of law, especially perhaps going into the artist management field, or something to do with music/performing arts, etc. He is at a four-year university B.M. program, not a conservatory, i.e. Julliard.</p>

<p>violinmom - a B.M. in performance is fine for law school as long as he keeps up his GPA and does well on the LSAT - the undergrad degree will not factor in that much. Anyone who knows anything about a degree in performance will know that those students are some of most hard working and disciplined out there. Of course, I'm a bit biased because my D will get a B.M. in performance also. I have searched Martindale Hubbell - the publication that lists the attorneys state by state - and you will find lawyers not only with the B.M. degree but also from the top conservatories in the country, including Juilliard.</p>

<p>Thanks for the tip, cartera45. I'll look that up!</p>

<p>Cartera: Would coursework in a legal-type field -- not a major or even a minor, just some courses -- like economics or history or political science help put admissions committees at ease?</p>

<p>I am surprised the Peace Corps have been mentioned. I plan on joining after undergrad. I always wanted to since I was 15. Does it really help that much? I guess I am ignorant but I never thought it was highly regarded or anything for admissions purposes.</p>

<p>
[quote]
In fairness, jonri's post #19 explicitly says that he doesn't think the degrees are very helpful. There's no need to take such a corrective tone.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>...unless the advice is wrong.</p>

<p>So what exactly are you trying to argue?</p>

<p>bluedevilmike - do you mean put them at ease about a music degree?</p>

<p>Yes, sorry about the ambiguity.</p>

<p>I don't think there is anything to make up for with regard to the degree. Undergraduate work in history, econ and political science don't correlate with law school work any better than music history, music theory - very diffiicult BTW - and the 3 extra years of foreign language that many music majors have to take. It will still be grades and LSAT.</p>