It’s also naive to think that the “smart” students at UNCCH didn’t take the same SAT prep classes.</p>
<p>Peer group matters. On the whole, one’s peer group at Brown will probably be “better” (smarter, more intellectual, et al) than the same peer group at UNC. I do hope the OP wouldn’t only associate with the students in his major–inevitably he will make more friends at UNCCH than at Brown who are not his intellectual peers, and this is well and fine. It’s even preferred by some students, for diversity and possibly less “elitism” or “intellectual snobbery.” The intellectual experiences at UNCCH vs. Brown will be significantly different. And UNC with Robertson will offer unique experiences, but that adds to–does not replace–the general college experience at UNC.</p>
<p>“inevitably he will make more friends at UNCCH than at Brown who are not his intellectual peers…”</p>
<p>Uhhhh…all of my friends at UMCP are my “intellectual peers.” Smart people like to associate with other smart people. Not out of any “intellectual snobbery” but simply because people gravitate towards those who they “click” most with. If you think talking intelligently about literature, politics, or anything and everything is an important part of a friendship, then you’re not going to have a lot of friends who can’t keep up with you…</p>
<p>Peer group is 100% overplayed, and I say this as a college junior who has a lot of high school friends I still keep in touch with, visit, etc. at various elite institutions. Their friends are not any smarter than mine, “on the whole” or otherwise. </p>
<p>Now, small discussion-based classes may be impacted. I don’t know, because I’ve never sat in on a significant number of small discussion-based classes at an elite university. Without first-hand info, it’s hard to make judgements in that category.</p>
<p>However, OP is interested in the sciences (or so I assume, though that’s not necessarily true). In that case…peer group would make even less of a difference.</p>
<p>My d was nominated for the Moorhead Cain and did not get it, her friend got accepted to Harvard and passed it up fo the Moorehead and is very happy. take the Robertson, save the dough and go to IVY for grad school if you want.</p>
<p>^^Is there an appreciable difference between college peer group and high school peer group, wrt whom one chooses to associate with? My previous post was made with the assumption that there is not; I have friends who are my intellectual peers, and friends whom I love dearly (sometimes more than the former) but not for reasons of intellectual conversation. I further assume that a person, when exposed to a diverse group of people, will not make friends with ONLY those with whom they can talk about <insert obscure=“” intellectual=“” interest=“” here=“”> to no end.</insert></p>
<p>For example, a musician might choose to join the marching band. S/he might discover and value some very close friends though that association; those friends are not necessarily intellectual peers, nor “befriended” for that reason. My point is that at a school with a “higher” peer group, such idiosyncratic friend connections are more likely to be made with intellectual peers as a matter of probability.</p>
<p>Perhaps we are also defining “intellectual peer” differently. My definition is someone who appreciates intellectual discussion even if the topic is personally uninteresting. I was fascinated by the two guys tossing physics problems, concocted on the spot, at each other in a dorm social circle at Swarthmore, even though physics is the bane of my existence. To give a personal example, I would appreciate a school where I can discuss comparative linguistics on a long bus trip without getting the evil eye from people who overhear but are not involved in the conversation.</p>
<p>In HS, though, I was friends with nerds - albeit nerds who ran track, nerds who played in the band, etc.</p>
<p>But they were all nerds ;). I was not interested in all of the obscure intellectual topics they were interested in…nor were they interested in all of the obscure intellectual topics I was interested in, either, so I don’t see how that has much bearing on anything.</p>
<p>If you join the marching band, you’re still going to end up forming friendships with people who are “smart”. No, they won’t have exactly the same interests as you, but if you want to talk about anything besides band - and you probably should, if you’re going to call this person a “friend” and not an acquaintance - then you’re probably going to want someone who is intelligent. </p>
<p>Maybe, on the whole, your acquiantances at Brown would be smarter. But in terms of people you’d actually forge friendships with and spend most of your time with, it doesn’t matter if you met them in the marching band, in a the Colleg Democrats Club, blahblahblah. If they’re stupid, they’re stupid, and neither of you is going to be very interested in the other most likely.</p>
<p>I live in a house with 10 other people currently (close friends I met during freshmen and sophomore years). They were all 4.0 or near 4.0 students in HS, were all accepted to various pretty damn good universities, and most are on significant scholarships. This is my core group of friends, and I didn’t screen them by asking their SAT scores on the day I moved in, but we found each other because one tends to find their peers no matter what. Are all of our drinking buddies scholarship students? Um, no. But that doesn’t really matter much?</p>
<p>Eh, maybe we just have different approaches to friends. Most of my friends are “nerds,” but some are not… and I wouldn’t call them stupid, either. Intelligent != intellectual. Someone can be really, really smart but not care a whit about intellectualism.</p>
<p>I fail to see how Brown would attract more intellectual students, and a state uni would attract people who are smart but not intellectual? </p>
<p>In fact, some of the more intellectual students I know did NOT do well enough high school to consider elite colleges, because they were not “type A” and would rather put time into their own pursuits than do homework. </p>
<p>And also, if one’s approach to making friends doesn’t exclude people who are “not intellectual”, then why would one care whether one was around more intellectual people or not? </p>
<p>Anyway, I’m hijacking this thread, but of course an Ivy versus Big Merit Money would get into the whole “peer group” discussion <em>eye roll</em>.</p>
<p>Everyone knows that if you go to a state uni, there are going to be hundreds or thousands of students there who were accepted to elite institutions. These kids don’t just sit around and do nothing, they form book clubs, poetry reading clubs, join activist organizations, join political organizations, etc. If you are interested in having intellectual conversations, or interested in having friends who are intellectual, it’s going to be pretty easy to satiate you.</p>
<p>As the OP I am trying to stay out of this discussion as much as possible, because I will visit UNC soon FIND OUT if I even will receive the scholarship. I do appreciate your insight and thoughts though.</p>
<p>@Keilexandra (Swarthmore is awesome and I love love love it there congratulations! I love the atmosphere and the “uncommon” conversations your ear falls upon while, uh, eavesdropping there)
& I’d also like to mention that I am a girl.</p>
<p>ALSO I agree with everything you’re saying about intellect vs smarts. I personally don’t care about SAT scores and know they don’t define you as a person (just as a university doesn’t define you as a person). Just as I don’t care about college rank. I am looking for something specific in my undergraduate education and I have a feeling it’s something similar to what Keilexandra is looking for. I feel AMAZING when I am learning something new. I have realized over the years that the majority of new things I learn are not from classes (until this year when I’ve had the opportunity to operate without my school’s requirements and through independent study/research etc), but from my peers. I realize you can learn from ANYONE but being surrounded by a group of people I can take something from is incredibly important to me. I know I can find this at Brown. I definitely know I can find this within the Robertson and MC programs.</p>
<p>Which is why “now, small discussion-based classes may be impacted.” bothers me a bit. (My major will not be a science one). </p>
<p>However this is all just speculation because I have not visited the university!!</p>
<p>:rolleyes: Brown peer group > UNC peer group because the latter is more diverse. I use that word intentionally, because the negatives I mentioned in my first post–elitism et al–are real. My personal experience again differs from yours; some intellectuals I know were disillusioned with the “system,” but they learned how to game it well enough to get where they wanted to be.</p>
<p>I make friends with people who share common interests. It really is that simple; I choose not to filter that by intellectualism or anything else. However, I also value an environment where with the exact same approach my friend group ends up being more intellectual. Call it laziness, or simply useless principles.</p>
<p>On topic, I reiterate my opinion that if the OP is awarded a full scholarship to UNC, s/he (ETA: she! Sorry about any prior gender mixup) should absolutely choose it over Brown (or any other school in the nation at full price).</p>
<p>My daughter’s best friend was offered a $7000/year grant at Yale, $11000/year at Harvard, and a full scholarship (I think including money beyond tuition) at the University of Chicago. She went to Yale.
Knowing what I do about financial aid at schools the level of Yale, I’m guessing that her parents’ income level was $150,000 to $200,000. The young woman really wanted to go to Yale, and her parents ponied up.
It is possible that the OP’s parents’ income level is two or three times that of my daughter’s friend’s family. This may be a choice where money may not be of any matter at all.
For most of us, UNC would make the most sense. But I don’t think this is the slam-dunk choice many posters think it is.</p>
<p>Duke and UNC are both terrific universities. The Robertson Scholarship is one of the best out there and recognizes your achievements…I say…go for the UNC scholarship…it’s one terrific offer…and the schools are outstanding. I can’t see the need to go into debt for another school when these schools are excellent and the financial aid is so favorable.</p>
<p>If you are lucky enough to be offered the Robertson- take it!Look at this this way- It is offered to FAR fewer students than are offered acceptance at Brown, or any other Ivy!</p>
<p>Hey,
I’m in a similar sort of situation - I received the Robertson to Duke and pretty much full ride to Princeton - but I’m sticking with the Robertson because of the unique opportunities/extra funding/support network.</p>