American students in Chinese eyes

College Life
121

<p>
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full of ignorant sweeping sterotypes

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<p>Um, dwerbowy (after the model I presume?), just because it sounds outrageously bad doesn't mean it is a stereotype. Or that it isn't true. </p>

<p>Pick any of these "ignorant sweeping stereotypes"-- about censorship, about banned AIDs classes, about Google, of all things-- and point out which ones are actually NOT true. Oops, they actually ARE all true. </p>

<p>Like I said, just because they sound outrageously indicting and negative doesn't mean they aren't actually real.</p>

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The American system teaches students to think for themselves but yet certain statements in this thread is still dripped in century old racism and McCarthy era anti-communist propoganda.

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<p>I think YOU need to figure out what racism truly is. There's a difference between disliking a particular political system and disliking the race of the people who live under that particular system. And I really, really don't see racism on this thread so much as dislike of the Chinese government. The later is the focus of negativity, not actual Chinese people.</p>

<p>If there's any problem with an education system, perhaps its a failure to teach how to distinguish between what are political disagreements and what are actual racist remarks. <em>rolls eyes</em></p>

<p>About McCarthy and propoganda... Like stonecold said, we are not making anything up like the old Wisconsin senator did. Even if you personally don't find Chinese communism as troubling as some of us do-- and its your right in AMERICA to feel however you want about communism-- answer me this: Would you rather live under the Chinese government or the American one? </p>

<p>By the way, just as a general aside in regards to China's government-- I just read this:</p>

<p>"There was more bad news today (Monday) for the producers of Mission: Impossible III as the Shanghai newspaper Xinmin Evening News reported that the movie may not be given an import license that would allow it to be screened in China. Although numerous scenes were shot in Shanghai, the newspaper indicated that authorities were upset at the filmmakers for "tarnishing the image" of the city by showing scenes of rags and underwear drying on side streets and depicting police as bumbling." </p>

<p>That's the Chinese government for you. Man, who WOULDN'T prefer life there when even the dumbest summer flicks are censored because they show that some Shanghainese dry their clothes on the streets (ooh, how bad)? What is the government so insecure about, anyway?</p>

122

<p>This whole thread is ridiculous. The OP makes so many sweeping generalizations from the get go that he/she obviously has no idea what they are talking about. Sad...</p>

123

<p>From PEALS-05:
<<about banned="" aids="" classes="">>
Safe sex education doesn't get cancelled, or left unfunded in the US? We don't attached restrictions to our foreign aid packages regarding contraception and reproductive freedom? Please. When the US returned to the Mexico City policy, NGOs of all stripes had to scramble for more funding from private donors in order to continue their scientifically-accurate safe sex education and clinic programs abroad.</about></p>

<p>From the OP:
<<above i="" have="" said="" is="" told="" by="" my="" teachers="" ,friends="" and="" anyone="" else="" .="" but="" suspect="" it="" .so="" want="" you="" americans="" to="" tell="" something="" about="" american="" students="" ,teachers="" ,schools="" so="" on="">>
It seems to me that the OP was curious as to what we had to say about some of the stereotypes that existed in China regarding the United States. In fact, it seems the OP even doubts the credibility of the claims s/he relayed to us. ("But I suspect it") I would think that polite, well-reasoned discussions would go alot further in proving those stereotypes wrong than name-calling and flame-throwing.</above></p>

124

<p>The OP was very insulting in their first post (whether on purpose or not). If you don't believe the claims then why post them. At very least it was an unintelligent way to start a discussion. Know your audience people! ;)</p>

125

<p>I have seen anime of lectures and if China or Asian education is anything like that, then it is a dream. </p>

<p>Nothing but yourself and the material. None of the idiots in your class needing to work in a project. I attend a Magnet Publich High School but the average ACT is barely above 20 and below 25(not giving exact number to give name out). The problem with this school is those who are to work on projects in a group don't work unless its on my AP class. Otherwise I have to do all the damn work because nobody in a regular class gives a flying rat's ass on what they get. So for all those classes I wasn't able to take at a higher level you don't get any benefits of this American system of education. It is mediocre and quite faulty. I would love a school where I DEPEND ON NOBODY. I myself and my work/presentation of the assignment count. None of this group bull****.</p>

<p>There are some classes that you CAN'T take at a higher level then regular so you are screwed.</p>

126

<p>
[quote]
I would love a school where I DEPEND ON NOBODY. I myself and my work/presentation of the assignment count. None of this group bull****.

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<p>There's a reason you have to do group projects in schools. It prepares you for your future and teaches you valuable interpersonal skills. If you can't work with other people, you are going to have one hell of a hard time keeping a job.</p>

127

<p>
[quote]
Safe sex education doesn't get cancelled, or left unfunded in the US? We don't attached restrictions to our foreign aid packages regarding contraception and reproductive freedom? Please

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<p>No one said America is perfect in regards to safe sex education, but most Americans are far more informed than Chinese have been able to be. But first, let's keep it within the States, shall we? I didn't bring up the sort of international stance China has with contraception, so why bring up America's in relation to Mexico, as you mentioned? </p>

<p>WITHIN the States, safe sex education is far more prevelant and accessible than China can currently imagine. Let's even go beyond those embarassing seventh-grade school assemblies or those mandatory health classes we Americans had to take in high school warning about STDs. Just look at the most banal, regular aspects of American life-- You can open ANY teen magazine-- let alone those aimed at older women-- and find features promoting safe sex and encouraging more knowledge about sex in general-- from "How do I use a condom" letters-to-the-health-editor to warning stories like "I was pregnant at 15 and had to drop out of school." Crack open a news magazine and you'll find ads for contraceptives. Watch TV any day and see all the commericals for the Pill or the Patch. Safe sex is promoted everywhere.</p>

<p>And everyone in America knows that AIDs is very, very bad. Many poor people in remote Chinese areas do not even know what AIDs is or that it exists. Like hell the communist government is going to "inform" them and help pass out the condoms. I well remember the recent allegations of whole villages coming under AIDs epidemics in China and the government desperately trying to hide reports coming from these regions from the knowledge of both other citizens in the country and among the international community. Sad, sad, sad.</p>

<p>Oh, and Nam3less:
[quote]
you don't get any benefits of this American system of education. It is mediocre and quite faulty.

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</p>

<p>Just because you happen to unfortunately be in an American school that sucks doesn't reflect upon all other schools in America. Sorry, but you're giving ancedotal evidence. A lot of American schools are not great places to get an education, but even the best schools in China are not allowed to offer internet access to any sort of knowledge Chinese students may want to find. Besides, there are many very strong public American high schools, not to mention scores of exceptional private schools. I guess you just weren't placed in one.</p>

128

<p><<the op="" was="" very="" insulting="" in="" their="" first="" post="" (whether="" on="" purpose="" or="" not).="">>
There are tremendous cultural differences involved, as virtually everyone here has been quick to point out. English is not the OP's first language. The OP communicated his/her skepticism towards Chinese stereotypes of Americans on at least two occasions. Word choice, syntax, and tone are all v. subtle things that even native speakers of languages struggle with. If I were communicating with native speakers of a foreign language, I would hope they would be somewhat understanding.</the></p>

<p><<if you="" don't="" believe="" the="" claims="" then="" why="" post="" them.="" at="" very="" least="" it="" was="" an="" unintelligent="" way="" to="" start="" a="" discussion.="">>
I think that the OP wanted us to comment/elaborate on or even disprove/disagree with the claims made by his or her fellow students, teachers, and family members. It's very difficult to elaborate on or disprove a claim if you don't know what it is. </if></p>

<p><<know your="" audience="" people!="">>
Once again, I think the reason why the OP started this discussion was because s/he did NOT "know their audience", but wanted to.</know></p>

129

<p>"So for all those classes I wasn't able to take at a higher level you don't get any benefits of this American system of education. It is mediocre and quite faulty. I would love a school where I DEPEND ON NOBODY. I myself and my work/presentation of the assignment count. None of this group bull****.</p>

<p>There are some classes that you CAN'T take at a higher level then regular so you are screwed."</p>

<p>alright obviously you don't work well with others, if you communicated to them about how you felt or planned out something so everyone could do a little bit then you wouldn't have to do it yourself. or are you the person who when someone does something that isn't up to you standards would do it yourself anyway? in which case then you have a reputation and i wouldn't do work either if i knew you were gonna "override" my work. </p>

<p>in the "realworld" you will have to deal with other people so you should get used to it.</p>

130

<p><<i didn't="" bring="" up="" the="" sort="" of="" international="" stance="" china="" has="" with="" contraception,="" so="" why="" america's="" in="" relation="" to="" mexico,="" as="" you="" mentioned?="">>
The Mexico City Policy is actually an international consensus on public health policy, specifically policy dealing with reproductive health and STIs. It has nothing to do with US-Mexico relations. It restricts the funding of NGOs who do work in the US and abroad on sexual health. And the US did play a strong role in its development. Since this policy determines how the US directs its tax dollars and the US played a significant role in its development, it's an excellent indicator of the American government's attitudes towards reproductive rights and education. Therefore, it's pretty relevant to the discussion. </i></p><i didn't="" bring="" up="" the="" sort="" of="" international="" stance="" china="" has="" with="" contraception,="" so="" why="" america's="" in="" relation="" to="" mexico,="" as="" you="" mentioned?="">

<p><<let's even="" go="" beyond="" those="" embarassing="" seventh-grade="" school="" assemblies="" or="" mandatory="" health="" classes="" we="" americans="" had="" to="" take="" in="" high="" warning="" about="" stds.="">>
Remember, we don't have a national curriculum. Those classes may have been mandatory at the state level, but the content and curriculum was designed by the local school board. The accuracy varies accordingly.</let's></p>

<p><<many poor="" people="" in="" remote="" chinese="" areas="" do="" not="" even="" know="" what="" aids="" is="" or="" that="" it="" exists.="" like="" hell="" the="" communist="" government="" going="" to="" "inform"="" them="" and="" help="" pass="" out="" condoms.="">>
In fact, China has increased its support for harm-reduction measures among drug users (the US doesn't), revised its policies on blood transfusions, distributes condoms to high-risk populations, and some regions of China have even initiated a 100% condom use policy among CSWs.</many></p>
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131

<p>
[quote]
I have seen anime of lectures and if China or Asian education is anything like that, then it is a dream.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Right, because anime is always totally accurate.</p>

<p>Take it from me: It ain't a Candyland dream.</p>

132

<p>
[quote]
Those classes may have been mandatory at the state level, but the content and curriculum was designed by the local school board. The accuracy varies accordingly.

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</p>

<p>In terms of accuracy, I really doubt any local school board is trying to distribute information that you SHOULDN'T use a condom or that AIDS is impossible to contract or something. I'm willing to bet that pretty much anywhere, effective condom use, the use of the pill, abstinence etc are simply basic points that these programs inform students of. And even if programs didn't feature these points, they would be few, extreme, glaring exceptions.</p>

<p>And like I said, even if somehow a student were subject to inaccurate sex health classes, they could freely look up a magazine or an official book or a professional medical website that offered real information. A wealth of resources are something Americans have an abudance of. </p>

<p>Does China implement mandatory sex health curriculums at all? If they presented mandatory health curriculums, would they be completely accurate either? If they were NOT accurate and students wanted to look up the real facts themselves, would they have the ease of access in finding out? I don't think so.</p>

<p>
[quote]
fact, China has increased its support for harm-reduction measures among drug users (the US doesn't), revised its policies on blood transfusions, distributes condoms to high-risk populations, and some regions of China have even initiated a 100% condom use policy among CSWs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is great, and I'm really glad to hear it. </p>

<p>However, these don't "make up" for the still sometimes glaringly inhumane treatment of many poor Chinese who remain uninformed of certain aspects in regards to their health. While the Chinese government is apparently improving in some areas, that doesn't make excuses for what the things they've done in the past, and in some regions, what they've continued doing.</p>

<p>And like you said, it's "some" regions, and among "high-risk" populations. Not all of China, for all people. China obviously is a huge country. They have a long way to go in terms of informing the greater population about healthcare and sexual education. And until they do, the human rights of the Chinese people will still be a sensitive and contentious issue.</p>

133

<p>Valentina, I never tried to argue these measures "made up" for the shortcomings of the Chinese govt in regard. What I was saying was that it was progress, and that the sweeping generalizations of other posters were faulty.. And progress should be acknowledged. Previous posters had failed to do so; and had instead met a great oppty to dispell stereotypes about Americans with their own.</p>

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<p>pip-pip,</p>

<p>The problem isn't that things in the PRC haven't progressed. It's that the progression of political freedom hasn't kept up with economic reforms. The development of a middle and wealthy class in China was quite possibly the most dangerous thing an authoritarian party could have ever done to itself. </p>

<p>The CCP is obviously terrified of this new growing threat to its autonomy. Why else would they make Yahoo and Google and homegrown search engines and ISPs self-censor? They're scared. They know that they're anachronisms-- dinosaurs in a land of agile new mammals. Now all they can do is cling to whatever vestiges of the old order is left, and hope that nobody notices that their policies are universally loathed.</p>

<p>I don't see this as a Chinese problem. I see this as a CCP problem.</p>

135

<p>
[quote]
Valentina, I never tried to argue these measures "made up" for the shortcomings of the Chinese govt in regard.

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<p>No, no, I didn't mean to accuse you in particular. I guess I used inaccurate wording and gave a bad impression that I was directing judgment upon you. I apologize.</p>

<p>I've been following closely your responses to other posters and I both agree with parts of what others have said and with issues that you have brought up. </p>

<p>However, while China has made great progress, I can still only view it in terms of its human rights as "not that bad" or "not as bad." And understandably, being known as a country that's simply "not as bad as it used to be" ain't too flattering.</p>

<p>I apologize again.</p>

136

<p>UCLAri, I completely agree that economic reforms have outpaced political ones. However, other posters put forth a charicature of China. I simply wanted to correct some inaccuracies/oversimplifications that had emerged. The purpose of this thread was to dispell/elaborate upon stereotypes. It was disappointing that so many chose instead to perpetuate them.</p>

137

<p>pip-pip,</p>

<p>I think that the problem for most is the fact that it's not easy to really have a well-rounded image of the PRC. I mean, it'd be great if everyone knew that China isn't North Korea (and I DARE anyone to tell me that North Koreans have it good). However, when the average American turns on the news, they hear about riots/strikes and the CCP putting them down, sometimes cruelly. </p>

<p>It's partly the media, but it's also partly the CCP being terrible at PR. I mean, simply awful. They need to hire a PR company or something, and work on projecting a better image.</p>

138

<p>UCLAri, </p>

<p>Hu Jintao was actually in my town a few weeks ago. The Chinese attempts at PR were humorous, involving schlepping paid "volunteers" to Connecticut in schoolbusses to hold banners. Another tactic was blasting the Chinese national anthem. For everyone within a five-mile radius to hear. I literally walked across town, for five miles, hearing the national anthem and speeches. Speaking of laughable PR moves, have you seen North Korea's website? Kim Jong-Il loooooves Hennessy. </p>

<p>I'll be the first to admit, I don't know very much about China. But I don't think it's very hard to find reasonably accurate information. You just have to be selective about your media and supplement it with reports from NGOs and IGOs. </p>

<p>Information is so readily available in the US! There's v. little excuse for not being informed on some of the most basic facts. Don't you think it's silly that some criticize the CCP for restricting access to information, while failing to take advantage of that same opportunity?</p>

<p>My littlest sister is visiting Japan as part of her immersion program, btw.</p>

139

<p>pip-pip,</p>

<p>Rational ignorance, if you have studied any econ, explains why people don't know more about Chinese grassroots politics. It's in very few people's interests to do so.</p>

<p>I'd rather have a rationally ignorant population than a population that's ignorant by force, personally.</p>

140

<p>It's something Walter Lippman talks about in polts as well. It's also a red herring. Not once did I say China was a great place to be. I said they weren't as bad as they used to be, and that some of the general statements of others were inaccurate at least in part. </p>

<p>I don't think a knowledge of Chinese politics something that's in ppl's interests, but it could be. Soon. Certainly it's in anyone's interest to check the accuracy of their own statements, if only to avoid looking like an ass.</p>