Amherst - Carleton -Davidson

<p>Thanks to all for the great input. I don't think he can make a bad decision with the choices he has available. His initial gut feeling is to select Amherst; the visit will likely be the deciding factor.</p>

<p>I have nothing bad to say about Carleton, but to all Minnesota parents (I am one), I suggest going out of region to go to college. Based on what I know of Amherst and Davidson, I would recommend Amherst for your son's profile of interests, bearing in mind that indeed those interests may change.</p>

<p>A visit is a good idea.</p>

<p>These are three great schools with very similar high quality overall academics. But with the only "profile" offered by the poster being interest in chemistry and physics, I agree with earlier comments that Carleton requires serious consideration. The disparity in academic focus of these schools, as the AdOfficer pointed out, is quite significant: </p>

<p>16% of Carleton students major in the physical sciences.
4% of Amherst and Davidson students do so.</p>

<p>Carleton's PhD productivity ranks #5 in chemistry, #7 in physics, and #6 in the physical sciences among LACs and universities nationally.
By comparison, Amherst ranks #23 in physics and #26 in overall sciences. Davidson's rankings are lower.</p>

<p>Having said this, I'll still strongly agree with bethievt's simple suggestion. These schools really are different socially and have very different vibes. Different enough so I suspect his visits will make things much clearer very soon. He's lucky to have such great choices. Good luck!</p>

<p>I'm a huge Davidson booster on these boards - I can't claim objectivity on that count. I love Davidson so much that I've been known to stop for lunch at the dining hall there instead of a standard restaurant when I've been traveling I-77. There are more fabulous things about it than you'd care for me to write here. But the one drawback to me always seemed that it would hurt to put in so much work at such a quality school only to go through life having people say "Davidson? Where's that?" Carleton, outside it's region has the same problem. Not Amherst. I would think that Amherst is the best-known "brand" in the entire LAC world.</p>

<p>Nothing to do with the OP, but after the run in the NCAA I think people do know now where Davidson is. They just don't realize everything about it is as outstanding as its basketball players. </p>

<p>Go 'Cats, and thank you for a wonderful season and a wonderful display of pride, character, and intelligence.</p>

<p>Visit the schools! We sling out one-sentence zingers about schools that may or may not be valid. These thoughts get stuck in your head. But what message have you heard?</p>

<p>When you hear the term "grade deflation," what does it make you think? When someone says X college will prepare your child for medical school or graduate school, what does this make you think? </p>

<p>Just because a student works really, really, really hard (spends a lot of time studying) doesn't mean they deserve (will earn) an A on a test.</p>

<p>My personal thought:</p>

<p>If you'd like to have a decent sports scene - Davidson
If that is inconsiquential - Amherst
If you want a 'quirky' environment - Carleton</p>

<p>Actually, Amherst has a pretty good athletic environment and a lot of beautiful tennis courts--though they may not always be able to beat Williams in football. DIII sports have their charms and NESCAC schools take athletics pretty seriously in some respects--don't let lack of athletic scholarships fool you. Overall feel is the issue in college selection at this point, because you will find quirkiness and athletics and academics in many places--just in different ratios.</p>

<p>I agree with post #27 and all of the other posts which encourage you & your son to visit all of the choices. I love Davidson College, its location, setting & academics. I disagree with those writing that Amherst is well known. It is not well known outside of those who are academically aware, in my opinion. I would encourage your son to strongly consider Davidson or Amherst over Carleton simply to grow through added exposure to another area of the country. If you don't visit Davidson, then you are just cheating yourself and your son out of another incredible option. Good luck!</p>

<p>Don't underestimate the effect the trimester vs. semester calendar will have on your student. Trimester means many friends head off to college in late August and Jr. is at home with nothing to do through September, then home again for a long Thanksgiving-New Year's break (sans friends), then out of school in mid-June, when many of the summer jobs have already been filled. We loved Carleton for DD, but the academic calendar would have been very difficult for her. Also, some kids like the 10-week trimesters with focus on less classes but more intensity. Some prefer the more leisurely 15-week semesters.</p>

<p>OK, I'll chime in as the parent of a graduating chem major at Carleton. Previous posts have given great advice - visit (did that with A and C, not D) and get out of home area (did that - 1800 miles). D is one of those unusual kids who identified an academic passion in hs and stuck with it through college, although that was not the expectation at the outset. Carleton filled her desire for an LAC with a super strong chem program, profs, record of grad school admits, and reputation for fostering female scientists. The</a> Chronicle: 5/5/2006: A Hothouse for Female Scientists.
OP has a son, but he may like having a higher number of females within his interest/major. D participated in several research projects, including one which sent her above the Arctic Circle in northermost Sweden and to ETH in Zurich (paid internships + expenses). Of the 23 chem graduates this year, about 1/3 are moving on to top-ranked (and top choice) PhD programs (including D), 1/3 are off to med school, and the other 1/3 are in various stages of obtaining employment. A prospective MD/PhD student is deferring his admissions to attend Cambridge on a Gates Cambridge Scholarship. The</a> Gates Cambridge Scholarships - New Scholars - Mr Michael Duyzend
The chemistry professors are well-known within the research communities that D interacted with. Profs at the PhD programs she visited knew them and Carleton well, including a Nobel Prize winner who used a prof's nick-name that D had been previously unaware of.
I don't think your S can make a bad choice given the quality education offered at C, A, and D. Best of luck to him.</p>

<p>mattmom - I was not suggesting that Amherst had poor athletics, but simply that if athletics were of consequence - Davidson appears to be a better option. If you seek to get away from athletics(commonly associated with 'quirky', whether fair or not), Carleton would be better.</p>

<p>In response to a q from me about his med school app outcomes , hubbellgardner from Davidson said </p>

<p>


This is my data point. It was last year. Any others?</p>

<p>grade deflation is a legit point of inquiry when you are certain you can come up with the MCAT scores and you know you have a vocation...granted some of my son's friends at Duke will make the topo grades anywhere they showed up and more power to them..but I am "agin" crushing medical career futures for students at risk of being bell curved out of the running merely when compared to a class of top 5% standardized test takers...and who would have aced classes given the proper labs, proper small classroom instruction and proper grading stringency. Simply take a firm self inventory and decide where you will learn the most and have a good shot at the proper GPR..and factor in grade deflation when making your final selections..some of us are not savants but nevertheless belong in a medical career and have a lot to offer once given entry to med school...and the medical schools all have their own next step way of helping you evaluate where you belong in the profession...but getting in is important.</p>

<p>My son considered Amherst and Davidson 4 years ago (admitted at both places). He didn't ultimately choose either one, but would give the nod to Davidson for the sports, but didn't like the conservative southern feel. I fell in love with Amherst (have visited twice, both times in the dead of winter) and if I were young, I would have wanted to go there (if I could get in!). It has such a cozy feel. Also it feels like such a cohesive academic community. I watched kids walk down the streets debating important topics, not just passing the time, and every time I went into Starbucks or a cafe in town, I'd see or overhear professors meeting with students to talk about papers, etc.<br>
Great choices for him!</p>

<p>Random note in favor of Davidson: They do your laundry for you...for FREE.</p>

<p>another random thought.....Amherst has 1 central cafeteria.... no other school we visited has that..... I suspect that would make it easier to meet everyone and anyone over a 4 year period.... </p>

<p>one other consideration when last we were looking at schools (2004) and will be looking again this year for a child who will graduate hs in 2009..... many of the schools seemed to have a big construction project or two....my recollection was that Amherst had many going on.... so, your son might be the beneficiary of what was going on then......hopefully all the major work is finished? </p>

<p>two of my sons best friends have gone to Amherst.....and they both seem to have thrived and 1 will be consulting in Boston...the other is pursuing a geology career after college.... that student went in thinking English as their major.....so, your son is wise to understand that college is a place where you can get turned on to new areas of interest/study.</p>

<p>As far as construction goes, Carleton will be building a new residence hall to open in fall, 2009. They are also renovating a former school (1920's vintage) building into a new arts center.</p>

<p>Every time I visit Carleton, I catch the "magic" and wish I were a student again.</p>

<p>Re: post 10--"I have heard many an academic say that Amherst may offer the best undergraduate education in the US. In terms of sheer prestige, it definitely is superior to Davidson and Carlton. Which isn't to say that they're not good schools - they're just not up to the level of Amherst."</p>

<p>I'd respectfully disagree. All three are top-ten US News & World Report LACs for 2008--if one gives credence to such listings. We have a daughter at Carleton and I find it difficult to believe that this incredibly well-regarded school would be "not up to the level" of any college in America. In my humble opinion.</p>