Amherst or Bowdoin?

You can actually get to Boston faster by taxi + train from Springfield.

What I don’t get is the fascination with “big city” as a generalization. Almost anything you want in a big city you want in a big city, you can find in Amherst/Northampton, or the fairly nearby medium size cities of Springfield and Hartford. A list of specifics would begin to flesh that out.

If someone wants the city life, s/he should go to college in a city. A 3+ hour train ride away is no substitute for that.

OP prefers “small class sizes” & “focus on quality of undergraduate education” with strong economics and/or political science departments & wants access to a major city.

Columbia, Chicago, Northwestern, Swarthmore, Claremont McKenna College, & Haverford might be options to consider since all have a higher percentage of smaller classes than do Amherst & Bowdoin,all offer easy access to a major city,and all offer outstanding undergraduate educations with strong programs in economics and political science.

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Excellent points! The devil is in the details.

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OP stated their S is set on LACs…so drop U Chicago, NU, and Columbia none of which are LACs or feel like LACs at all.

I agree with the others who say that neither Bowdoin nor Amherst students will access Boston will any regularity. Neither are LACs that one would say has access to a large city, although Bowdoin students do go to Portland, which is a thriving small city.

LACs not mentioned with city access include Davidson, Trinity CT and Trinity TX, Carleton, Sarah Lawrence, Occidental, Rhodes, Lewis and Clark, Reed, and stretching the definition a bit with U Richmond and Holy Cross.

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I included Columbia, Chicago, and Northwestern based on the qualities sought by OP and, presumably, OP’s son. In fact, these three educational institutions are better matches for OP’s son based on OP’s stated criteria than are Amherst & Bowdoin.

My point is that labels can be misleading or unfairly limiting.

OP & OP’s son are seeking the best education,not necessarily limited to one label based on the information shared in this thread.

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“since all have a higher percentage of smaller classes”
That is interesting; where did you hear this?

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CDS Common Data Sets reported.

Can also be found in USNews Best Colleges as all schools are rated on “percentage of classes under 20 students”.

Having several close relatives & many friends who have attended and graduated from Chicago, Northwestern, or Columbia, I have heard repeatedly about small class sizes. Nevertheless,some intro courses can be large.

A couple of years old now, but percentage of classes with under 20 students at the schools that I listed:

Columbia–82%
Chicago–79%
Northwestern–78%

Claremont McKenna College–81%
Swarthmore College–74%
Haverford College–78%

Amherst College–71%
Bowdoin College–70%

Those three institutions do not square with the statement that OP’s S is ‘set on a LAC’…we need more info, perhaps they have chosen an LAC so they can avoid having graduate teaching assistants (which for many is an important part of ‘quality of undergraduate education’). With that said it would be helpful if OP weighs in on some of these suggestions and a more detailed prioritization of desires.

I think the question is why the OP “is set on an LAC.” These schools are typically not in or around big cities. That’s the whole point of the LAC experience. His preference for the LAC stand in contradiction for his longing to get to a big city.

And will any old big city do? Except for Sarah Lawrence and Holy Cross, the schools you’ve listed are definitely not near places that equal Boston or NYC - with the possible exception of Richmond depending on what he wants in a big city. And frankly none of these 3 is all that similar to Amherst and Bowdoin if those are the kinds of schools he really wants.

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Just mentioning Tufts again…

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I agree that we need more info from OP, but many of the LACs I listed share a number of similarities to Amherst and Bowdoin…and bottom line, no matter OP’s S’s stats, they need some match schools on their list and at least one affordable safety.

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since all have a higher percentage of smaller classes

Respectfully, I am confused. LACs are defined by their educational style, not their geographical location, correct?

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Incorrect as, broadly speaking, LACs are defined by highest degree granted. The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching determined the classification parameters.

If possible, I encourage OP’s son to sit in on a small class at Chicago, Northwestern,and/or Columbia and then do the same at Amherst and/or Bowdoin.

From my viewpoint, LACs are defined by their limitations.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/rankings-faq

LACs focus on undergraduate teaching because they have few graduate programs & few graduate students. This does not mean that National Universities do not offer outstanding undergraduate education.

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Oh, well played, sir. :thinking:

An interesting perspective on teaching quality & quality of undergraduate academic & educational experience canbe found by researching Morty Shapiro’s public statements regarding Williams College and Northwestern University= Morty Shapiro was the President of Williams College before becoming President of Northwestern University.

In short, President Shapiro was shocked at Northwestern’s non-top 10 ranking (Northwestern University is now ranked among the top 10 National Universities by US News) by US News after a few years as President of Northwestern University. Prior to becoming President of Northwestern, Morty Shapiro was a long-tern President of Williams College which was & remains the #1 ranked LAC by US News.

Frankly the elephant in the living room is the question of WHY is this student set on an LAC? What does he want to get out of it? Where does he see his future path leading?

As much as I love an LAC for its educational experience, it doesn’t prepare its students for anything specific. So most are going to either grad school or into the business world. If he doesn’t see himself headed for a PhD, MD, or JD, then Babson College is as good an undergrad experience as one can get with lots and lots of liberal arts & humanities and with a big city (Boston) in easy reach.

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Agree 100% that the issue is: “Why is this student set on an LAC?”

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:laughing:

Luckily for the OP, there are likely still careers and passions that will require problem solving and intellectual curiosity in the future. Specific knowledge can be automated…thinking is much harder to program.

What I love (and hate) about CC is that someone asks about 2 LAC’s, and somehow it becomes a referendum on why they don’t want to attend a larger university. Amazing.

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By subjective impressions of classroom environment, Bowdoin would be challenging to surpass:

The issue is not really LAC versus National University; the issue is “why” ?

If a preference for LACs is due to an incorrect perception or due to a misunderstanding, then CC posters should offer relevant advice.

In this thread, OP’s son is seeking access to a major city, small classes, strong programs in economics and/or political science. These concerns do not limit one to an LAC.

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